Think tank

Image: Delving into various topics across the curriculum with teachers, academics, experts and the curriculum advisory team.

Dance

Listen to an insightful discussion about engaging students online and revision tips for the HSC Core Appreciation Dance Exam.

Jackie

The following podcast is brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team from Secondary Learners Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education.

As we commence this podcast today, let us acknowledge the traditional custodians of all the lands on which this podcast will be played around New South Wales. Their art, storytelling, music and dance along with all First Nations People hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal Australia. Let us acknowledge with honour and respect our elders, past, present and future, especially those Aboriginal people in our presence today who have and still do guide us with their wisdom.

Welcome to the Creative Cast podcast series. My name is Jackie King and I'm a Creative Arts Project Advisor with the New South Wales Department of Education. Today's Think Tank episode is a chat between two dance teachers about revision techniques for the HSC core appreciation written exam. Please welcome Clare Johnson from Gymea Technology High School and Carla Cherrie from Kirrawee High School.

Hi Carla and Claire, thanks for joining me today. Before I hand over to you guys to have a chat, I just thought I'd give our listeners a little bit of context as to what we're doing here today. So, you are both dance teachers who have taught the HSC dance course before and Clare, you've been fortunate enough to escape not having to have a class in what has been this super crazy year.

Clare

Yes.

Jackie

But Carla, you do have a class?

Carla

Yes, I do. I've got three students or a nice small class.

Jackie

Fantastic. And during this time you've also both been working with us on some resources to help teachers improve their students’ writing for dance, which is probably going to be released at the end of the year or early next year. So that's why I've brought you together today to have a bit of a chat and I thought it best just to let you guys have a chat about some techniques and some tips for teachers to use in these final few weeks before the HSC dance exam and they've got a little bit longer now than they thought they originally had, which is really fantastic. But I thought I'd hand over to the dance experts and Clare as you don't have a class this year, I'm going to get you to ask questions and talk about some really fantastic ideas that I know you guys have employed this year and in previous years in preparing your students for the HSC core appreciation written exam.

Clare

Thank you, Jackie. Carla, considering the given climate with Covid 19 affecting the HSC for New South Wales students, how are you coping teaching the Dance Syllabus online whilst students are preparing for their written exam?

Carla

So it's definitely been a bit of a roller coaster. Lots of ups and downs. I am finding that the extra few weeks before the HSC and being on an online platform and at Kirrawee, we use google classroom, it's provided the students and I with both positives and negatives. I think the positive sides of the situation that we're in learning online, there's less, less chatter within, you know, classmates. I also find that I can give kind of live feedback, I can give it over google classroom using the doc to help the kids and kind of tap into their thought process and guide them back on track. So, if they do go off on a tangent, I can give them live feedback as they're typing, give them clear directions with their extended responses. I think too, it allows students to work to their own timeframe with no restraints of bells to interrupt their train of thought. So, working at home, they can spend their time producing better quality with more focused approach to the given task. And I find that they haven't got the restrictions of the like the lesson time frame, they can run their own race. And I mean, this isn't the case for all students, but I think where they're at at the moment in their education, you got an understanding but the onus is on them to work hard and achieve the best results that they can. So the other thing that I think is a big positive for students is that this situation is certainly it's certainly developing certain lifelong skills of time management, self-motivation, sustained focus and writing endurance and all these skills they're developing while they're working online and they’re, you know, super valuable for their future and their future education. For me personally I think a big plus for me is that I get to keep an eye on the kids’ work and you know, see what they haven't handed in and I can prompt them and remind them to finish off their work. And I think too the extra weeks that we've got between now and when the HSC starts allows us to utilize the time for more revision and we can brush up on our appreciation skills and just focus on appreciation now that you know, the performance side is finished.

Clare

So those extra weeks are really going to help you out there and having that focus on that core appreciation component. So, you've mentioned the positives, can you tell us a little bit more about the problems or the challenges that you're facing with teaching this content online?

Carla

Yeah, for sure. So, I definitely think some of the challenges are obviously related to the social aspects. You know, these year 12 kids that year 12, you know, they get certain privileges when they get into year 12 and unfortunately they're missing out on all of these things like their formals and presentations and just even the everyday social socialisation. They're missing out on time with their peers and I find that this has made the kids slightly unmotivated and disappointed within the lockdown situation. The other area that is more apparent and needs extra attention this year is definitely going from a digital world where we're in at the moment, back to handwriting and students will need to practice their handwriting skills within their essays as opposed to typing them and developing, they need to really work on developing their dexterity and their fine motor skills or that their work is legible when they go into that exam.

Clare

Yeah, that's very true though. They haven't spent that time in the classroom practicing writing those and it has been on this digital world. So yes, that is one aspect of their training that they need to keep a focus on in the lead up to this exam. So, have you found ways to keep your students motivated and if so, can you share with us some of the ways that you found that are effective in keeping them motivated during this time?

Carla

So I've tried to provide as many face to face zooms online as possible that way I feel that the kids can connect and they have a sense of belonging which gives them that chance to open up to have conversations, share their concerns, ask questions, not only of each other but of me as well. This also allows them to provide support for each other and it allows me as a teacher to provide support and they can share their similar experiences and discuss the ebbs and flows with their moods and their motivations and I think it also gives them that sense of not being alone and that they're in it together and they can share the experience together. I've also tried to incorporate some movement based lessons such as yoga and stretching and Pilates and even though that you know, they're not directly linked to the appreciation component, I think it's still important for their mental health to keep moving their bodies. They are dancers after all, and this reinforces the interrelated components of the Dance Syllabus whereby they still experience dance and appreciate it and it's also an outlet for them to express themselves. I've also incorporated some Kahoots, which is a fun and interactive app, but also a great revision tool and there are a bunch of related Kahoots to our prescribed works on their website, but you can also create your own as well. And I find the kids like it and then it's interactive, something different.

Clare

Yes. Some great ideas there to keep them motivated. Thank you. So now let's turn our focus to the actual core appreciation exam. In your experience, what's been the most difficult aspect of the core appreciation exam for your students?

Carla

So personally, I think the 30 minute time frame that they have to write the essay in is probably one of the most difficult parts getting the kids to be aware of their time management and making sure that they're completing the question within that time frame and as well as making sure that they're answering the question completely and they're not leaving things out. I also think it's hard to get the kids to break down the question and to brainstorm within that five minute reading time.

Clare

Yes, it's not a long time to gather their thoughts together is it? I've experienced that in the past they really need to learn how to use the five minutes wisely and they don't have that time during the exam to stop for a minute and consolidate their thoughts like they would perhaps in an exam that extends for a couple of hours. So, taking that focus just to 30 minutes is really important. So, what is it that they can do in the five minute reading time to make the following process of writing for only that 30 minutes on each question easier or more effective?

Carla

So I get my kids to ensure that they identify the keywords and the components from the syllabus within the question and then they're able to call on their knowledge and understanding to effectively address the question and the answer that is being asked well. Students have retained a lot of knowledge and information about the works we have studied, the difficult task is to only include the relevant information and deliver it in a succinct manner so that they can answer the question within that 30 minute time frame.

Clare

Yes, with just 30 minutes to write a response, there's not much time for waffling around. So, getting to the point a great tip there, that's excellent. So, Carla, what further tips and tricks can you share with us to encourage them to practice their writing for core appreciation?

Carla

So I'm lucky enough to be supported by a number of dance teachers within my local area and we have an ongoing dialogue of questions and suggestions. We’re constantly sharing resources and supporting each other because of changes to the HSC. We've obviously tapped into each other's ideas and strategies and we're constantly in contact and we've looked at how to effectively get through the past few weeks and the weeks ahead.

Clare

That's so fantastic to be part of a great network of dance teachers and we're very lucky in the subject and we're very grateful that we have great colleagues around us. So, I'd love for you to share some of those ideas that you've come up with your colleagues. So, what are some of the tips and tricks that you've come up with and that you'll implement in these weeks remaining?

Carla

So we've got a number of tips and tricks that we've all been sharing. So, this is a combination from ideas from all of the teachers I liaise with. One of them, and I think the most important one, is timed responses. So, getting students to actually sit down, set a timer on their phone for 30 minutes and then pick up a pen and start writing. I give my kids a list of unseen questions or a list of lots of different essay questions that they can choose. So basically, this is like a mock exam situation and it's giving them the experience of having to consolidate all of their ideas quite quickly and get it down in the 30 minutes. Another option is to get the students to mark each other's essays. Now, it depends on the cohort and whether the kids are comfortable with that, but this little task allows them to develop their own skills in the way that they're ensuring they’re reading the questions and they're making sure that the essays are answering the question. It's also good for them to share ideas this way.

I think it's also important for the students to practice a review and we haven't had a review question for some time. So, it's important that the students understand what’s included in a review and what a review looks like and what it means to take on the role of the critic in your writing. So, I give examples of different reviews for the kids to read and look over.

Lately I've been creating sample plans as a response to different practice questions. We do this over zoom and I find that when we work together, when I work together with the kids, you know, it gives them more confidence than to go away and do these plans by themselves. Within these plans, we just do dot points and we write what we, you know, how we might attack the question and we write down some examples and as I said, it just gives those kids that perhaps aren't as confident, it gives them an extra plan and then it gives them a strategy that they can take away and do their own plans.

Clare

That's a fantastic idea. I really imagine that that's a handy way to be using the online platforms and the communication tools that we have in this current environment and really getting them to immerse themselves in the process of planning and writing and all contributing at once. And that really emulates that classroom situation, doesn't it?

Carla

Yeah, for sure. And what I do is we all use the same doc and they can all write on the doc at the same time. So, it's just like being in the classroom, except we're just not face to face. I also remind my students to answer the question and I think that's another big tip. It might seem a little bit silly to say that, but you've got to remind the kids that they have to answer the question and like I said before, the students really need to get to the point and be succinct and not waffle. I also suggest that they be specific with their movement examples, describe in detail and always link it back to the question.

Another task that I do with my kids is I share with them the core appreciation syllabus areas of study, as well as the glossary of words and I get them to create their own essay questions. So, they just, you know, make the links and this is a good way for them to gather more understanding of the syllabus and it allows them then, once they've got the question then, they can create their plan and then potentially extend and write the whole essay from that.

Clare

Some great tips there Carla for the coming weeks. Thank you. And thanks to our wonderful network of teachers for some fabulous ideas there. Okay, let's talk about the actual exam day. Now, what are some last minute tips for the night before or the morning of the exam that we can share with our students?

Carla

So these probably sound pretty obvious, but when you're heading into your dance exam, there's lots of nerves and anxiety is happening. So, I like to remind the kids even though it is sounding obvious, sometimes they might overlook it. But firstly, they need to be prepared obviously and make sure that they're not cramming the night before. If they leave the work or the study to the last minute, then they can be tired and stressed and therefore they're going to feel flustered heading into the exam and they're not going to utilize that five minute reading time appropriately. Another thing is students need to be in a good mental space before they enter the exam and so they need to give themselves plenty of time to arrive and prepare before heading into the exam room. They're making sure that they are getting there maybe 20 minutes or half an hour before the exam to gather their thoughts so that when they do enter the exam, their mind is clear and free of stress. Another thing that I always remind them to do is have a good breakfast or lunch so that their brain can function. You don't want them going in there and being distracted by their grumbling bellies.

Clare

Yeah, that's right. And it's some pretty basic and simple ideas here but it's about getting teenagers to be thinking about these things in the lead up to the exam and just entering those exam situations as calmly and as clear as is possible and that plenty of time before the exam starting. And just that arrival time you talked about is really good, you don't want to be running late on the day of your exam and be stressed out and by the time you get there then you need some time to calm down. So just lots of time and lots of focus and prepare yourself for the exam.

So where now can you direct students for further assistance whilst they're preparing for their exam online, Carla?

Carla

I've sent my kids different links and told them to head to obviously the NESA website where they can go over the syllabus, especially the core appreciation part of the syllabus. I've also encouraged them to have a look at past HSC exam papers and take note of the guidelines to know what was required to answer the question at various levels. I've directed them to the standards material of the written exam paper, which is also on NESA and this allows them to look at some exemplary essays, and obviously sending them to the Bangarra website and the Kylian website so that they can gather some more information on our prescribed work.

Clare

Thanks Carla, such fabulous ideas of tips and tricks leading up to the core appreciation exam, things that we've worked on as dance teachers for many years. But in the environment like we've talked about, it's very different and you really do need to shift your focus and your approach to teaching online. So, there were some fantastic ideas. Thank you very much for that. Thanks for speaking with me today and sharing all those ideas, best wishes for you and your students and all the dance students of New South Wales.

Carla

Hopefully the teachers out there have found these tips useful.

Jackie

This podcast was brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team of Secondary Learners, Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education. Get involved in the conversation by joining our statewide staff room through the link in the show notes, or email our Creative Arts Curriculum Advisor, Cathryn Horvat at creativearts7-12@det.nsw.edu.au. The music for this podcast was composed by Alex Manton and audio production by Jason King.

[end of transcript]

Drama

In this episode our Creative Arts Curriculum Officer Ravenna Gregory speaks with Belinda Farr-Jones and Jane McDavitt about the drama written exam. Listen to an insightful discussion on engaging students in theatrical experiences to improve their writing for the HSC.

Jackie

The following podcast is brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team from Secondary Learners, Educational Standards Sirectorate of the New South Wales Department of Education.

As we commence this podcast today, let us acknowledge the traditional custodians of all the lands on which this podcast will be played around New South Wales. Their art, storytelling, music and dance along with all First Nations People hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal Australia. Let us acknowledge with honour and respect our Elders, past, present and future, especially those Aboriginal people in our presence today who have and still do guide us with their wisdom.

Ravenna

Welcome to the Creative Cast Podcast Series. My name's Ravenna Gregory and I'm a Creative Arts Curriculum Officer with the New South Wales Department of Education. This episode is a little unusual as it's kind of a pre chat for a professional learning session that my two guests and I designed and presented this term. The conversation you're about to hear was part of our early planning for their Written Exam Bump In presentation which is now available through MyPL. Belinda Farr Jones has taught drama across three continents for 25 years. There are few drama teachers in New South Wales that have read as many HSC essays as Belinda and she is determined to find creative ways to excite drama students to write with an authentic and empowered voice. She began her new role as Head Teacher Creative and Performing Arts at Turramarra High School this January. Jane McDavitt has taught drama and English in a range of public comprehensive and selective schools and is passionate about the way drama welcomes and develops the talents of all students. She loves the magical way that making theatre in productions, ensembles, curriculum and essays can empower students to articulate and claim their place in the world. Jane is currently Head Teacher of English at Hunter's School of the Performing Arts.

Jackie

We interrupt this podcast for a very special announcement. The Creative Arts Curriculum Team announce our Creative Casting Call. This initiative provides two exciting ways that you and your students can get involved in our podcasts and earn some much needed funds for your creative arts faculty budget. First, compose our podcast music. Compose some music we could use for the intro and outro for our podcast next term. The best composition will be used in our podcast next term and win your school a $2,000 grant for creative arts. The second is design next term's promotional tile. Our podcast theme for next term is where to from here. The best tile will be used for our where to from here podcasts next term and also win your school a $2,000 grant for creative arts. Find the full brief in the Creative Arts Statewide Staffroom, entries for next term close on the last day of term three with the winning composition and tile to be featured and credited in term four’s podcasts. This initiative is only available to New South Wales Department of Education schools 2021.

Ravenna

Belinda and Jane are both very passionate about the HSC drama written exam. And I started by asking Jane about the reason for that excitement.

Jane

I think the excitement for me is twofold both as a lover of theatre and as an educator because in our drama classroom we get to create magnificent theatre and magnificent pedagogy and learning through that as well. And that carries through the exam that when we're reading the responses that students write, you're invited into drama classes around the state. You don't know where you're going to go with each essay you read and so you're invited into these worlds. You get to learn about what students have been doing in the classroom and you also get to learn what their visions and imaginings are for theatre.

Belinda

It's exciting because I got a chance to really try a few new things and to make a real difference by moving away from any kind of theory lesson. I love that the students can be so brave in our subject and can truly find ownership in their writing. I long for the chance to give kids the opportunity to be actual theatre makers. And I've come from a place that did have a lot of resources and now I have a blank space and some 30 year old lights that sometimes work and the kids have more chance to own their work. As a result, they're not relying on anyone but themselves. So that's truly exciting.

Ravenna

And I guess that's the lovely thing about that as well, Belinda is that that blank space and those 30 year old lights are all that we really need to create experiences that students can write about. And I think one of the nice things that I've heard you both talk about, because we've had a little talk prior to this chat, is that if students are making good theatre then they're going to be able to write about theatre and that lovely idea that it's not about, you know, that it is just that empty space and how we can capture moments in those spaces in those various empty spaces that you've taught in. What topics and texts have you taught for HSC drama?

Jane

So for Australian I've always taught contemporary so most recently that's been Life Without Me, Stolen, or Neighbourhood Watch and in the past Seven Stages of Grieving. In studies in drama and theatre. I've taught approaches to acting, black comedy, Irish and American.

Ravenna

What's making you make those decisions about what to teach Jane?

Jane

I think the choice is always so different depending on what the needs are of the students. In the current context that I’m in, Hunter School of Performing Arts, the approaches to acting topic, really works for those students. Not that I drove that choice. But having taught the approaches to acting, it gives a lot of space for the students with a really well developed theatrical vocabulary in our school to extend upon that. And I think it also is like one of the topics that can lend to great nuance in their understanding of approaches to the projects as well. There are quite a few topics that do that, but that's been quite beneficial from doing that topic. I really like being in that contemporary space with Oz drama because I think it's really great for students to know that theatre is alive and happening and changing all the time. And that's something that I really enjoy.

Ravenna

What have you taught over years Belinda?

Belinda

Over the years? I have taught Neighbourhood Watch and Stolen a few times. My Turramurra kids did that in term four last year. Lately, I have been doing Norm and Ahmed and The Removalists. I think that it's really interesting to look back at those traditions and look at how far or how far we have not come with various social issues. And I think the students really find that empowering and they're always to make those, those plays that have such a legacy vibrant and deeply pertinent in 2021. In the topics, I've taught tragedy and black comedy and significant plays of the 20th century. I would like to move on to multi discipline next. But right now, with a change of school, I've stuck with the one I've had most recent experience on. So, sig plays, it's kind of a false distinction as well, isn't it? In the prescriptions the traditional versus contemporary, because what the students are doing with it in the class is contemporary, you know, they're experimenting with it and playing with it every day. And so even though you're dealing with a legacy, it's always about finding how that translates for today's audience today. New staging is absolutely.

Ravenna

And that understanding for students of themselves as contemporary theatre makers. I think that is really important when we get into the written exam as well, that their theatre is a legitimate thing to be writing. And I guess that kind of brings me back to what we're actually here to talk about, which is approaching revision. And I'm really interested actually in the differences in approaching revision of a topic that has texts attached to it versus approaching revision for a topic that has practitioners. And are there differences? Is my question.

Belinda

Um, I think we all know what it feels like to finish a long run of a production or the final moment when we say goodbye to the examiners and take them to their car. We’re deflated. We have very little brain capacity left and the students feel like they deserve some time off. So, it's our job to be as creative as we possibly can be and make every piece of revision fun and exciting and as vibrant as any other lesson that you would have provided when you first taught the topics. I do a lot of filming when I'm teaching the first time around. But we are hoping to really unpacked rubric and make sure they know that the questions are not going to be wild or random, but that they're coming from a very specific place in that rubric and really trying to attach moments of theatre to individual words so that they're making stunning, evocative, powerful theatre. We film it, we go home and we create excellent half page paragraphs that describe evocative moments on the stage and take our markers to the theatre and not the page.

Ravenna

you know, motivating yourself to get back to that moment of the excitement from term four discovering that topic for the first time term one, which is what most schools are doing, what's your kind of trick for getting them back into that moment Jane? Because I've seen you do it, I've seen you get excited about it. How do you communicate that to students?

Jane

So I really, really like to take a production approach to the essay. I think it's different to the performances because the performances have a visible audience for students. Whereas the essay has an invisible audience. And so, I do like to affirm that idea of audience and everything they do when they're preparing for the written exam. One of the things I really like to do is to get the kids to really own their, their voice and their agency, in terms of the markers actually don't need to know about the plays they've studied and the practitioners they've studied because the markers already know that stuff, what the markers are most interested in is understanding the students interpretation of that work and how the students have engaged with that. So, I like to get my kids into groups and create their own theatre company that's going to be exploring these plays so that they can continue that sense of collaborative learning and the project based approach that they're kind of coming down from after performances that they've just done, but with a view to understanding, communicating their theatrical vision to this invisible audience that they've got coming up.

Belinda

I think if I can add, are short bursts. A really good idea at this point, they've been working on one project for a very long time and I think that they really appreciate variety at this point. So instead of going straight into a timed essay, that's probably the last thing I'd ever do. You might be looking at reviews of the plays that have been performed all over the world in different time periods and highlighting wonderful adjectives that describe particular moments or you might find some production stills online, so much digital theatre now for us to enjoy. You can look at some production stills and talk about proximity and costume and texture and light and sound, maybe not sound because you can't see, and really try to be as visual as you possibly can and the next day going with some evidence boxes that might be context around the stolen generation or that kind of thing. The very next day might be might be something completely different.

Ravenna

I love that idea of short bursts. I'm also interested in the student who turns up to the classroom to a revision session without any of their notes from term four and term one. How is the way you're approaching this revision going to overcome that? Kind of what could be a derailing of that revision process Jane?

Jane

It is pretty tricky because I mean a strengths based approach will still always work. So, I think it's important to affirm their responsibility but that I can also be ready. I can have scripts and give excerpts and things like that. A student might have been, you know, had a significant illness halfway through term four that they still haven't quite caught up on that experiential learning that they missed in term four last year. And so, I think thinking of revision as just repeating what's been done before is not really going to serve a lot of our kids and we might do it in a different way. Like Belinda saying that we can be taking more short sharp bursts, whereas in term four and term one, we were working towards, you know, big tasks, students were creating then and we don't necessarily need to do that now, but I think like I would always try to be prepared to support the students, however they're walking into my classroom, because having a fight with a student about not being prepared when there are all sorts of other things going on in that life is not really going to do anything.

Belinda

I guess I make sure to that I'm cataloguing or charting their learning in term four in term one. So, google classroom is my friend, I didn't use it until this year, the kids were all over it. So, every video is uploaded, lots and lots of resources, they can't lose it because it's there. So even my most disorganized students will still have a whole wealth of information, beautifully filed away in their google classroom suite of knowledge, but keeping it vibrant and brand new stuff and short bursts, little quizzes, Sale of the Century Games, you can make these things super fun.

Ravenna

I think one of the things you talked about at the very beginning was the importance of filming work. One of the things that has kind of evolved for me is the benefits of, to look at past student works because they don't always like to look back at their own work, they can get, you know, that can be detrimental sometimes at that stage, but looking at past student work can be, can be that work that they're going to talk about in their exam, depending on the question. Of course. I think one of the things that that teachers struggle with as well is that the student who will come to you and say, but what's the scaffold that I need for this exam? What does a drama essay look like, give me a scaffold. How many paragraphs should, you know, should I talk about a few scenes from the text etcetera and giving a prepared response? So, what's the difference between being prepared to improvise in an exam and preparing a response? How do you get around that? How do you get around that particularly with students who are crying out for that and needing that in terms of their learning support needs, what's the balance there?

Jane

The moving approach to a lot of the revision is very helpful in this space, because if we keep that practice of improvising of questioning things problem solving in our theatrical practice as we're revising, then that is something that transfers into an exam situation where students are being asked to improvise, and students can keep creating theatre in that exam imaginatively. If what they've done in the past doesn't serve their purpose as well as a staging idea that they have in that five minutes, then they absolutely can keep creating up to that moment. And I guess in terms of the scaffolding, there are things that I would find more useful. So, there are some things, obviously we want our students to have a balance there. Generally looking at two plays or to practitioners, we want some things to be balanced and so we need them to have that experience of writing under time to conditions in some way. So, they know that they're going to be able to craft that balance. But then unpacking that question and responding to the question is the thing that makes it authentic and going beyond, you know, a scaffold response that might be missing that individual touch because actually developing their personalised individual thesis, responding to that question on the day, the thing that makes it, you know, all tie together for me. And so, I think time at interrogating questions is really valuable in terms of developing nuanced response.

Belinda

I think our subject encourages and nurtures and celebrates bravery in every way. And I hope I can find a way to say to students out there, please be brave. We are getting better as teaching practitioners at writing questions that can't be pre prepared. Of course, you can have some very well thought out moments, but I've urged all students to try and come up with a very clear thesis in their opening sentence. Certainly, they're opening paragraph, which is like life, first impressions are everything, and that first paragraph, that's half a page will be a direct attack on that question. The very precise question that may have 1,2,3 or even four parts. I encourage we teach in a way that breeds theatre makers and we want to see that ownership and real understanding of what these plays can be on the stage and they need to have been theatre makers themselves and that means designers as well as directors as well as the audience or the performer or all of those things.

Ravenna

If you'd like to hear about more strategies for helping your students to demonstrate their theatre making skills in the drama exam, you can sign up for Jane and Belinda's Written Exam Bump-in professional learning presentation that's now available on demand through MyPL. And you can find the course details in the show notes. Thanks again to Jane McDevitt and Belinda Farr Jones who were so generous in chatting with me and sharing their expertise and also their excitement about the drama written exam.

Jackie

This podcast was brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team of Secondary Learners, Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education. Get involved in the conversation by joining our statewide staff room through the link in the show notes or email our Creative Arts curriculum Advisor Cathryn Horvat at creativearts7-12@det.nsw.edu.au. The music for this podcast was composed by Alex Manton and audio production by Jason King.

[end of transcript]

Music

In this episode creative arts curriculum officer Alex Manton speaks with Dr Thomas Fienberg from Evans High School and Aboriginal outcomes and partnerships advisor Anthony Galuzzo about Aboriginal perspectives in the music classroom. We discuss various approaches regarding strategies for addressing Aboriginal perspectives in a culturally sensitive way, through the study of a range of resources aimed at improving outcomes for Aboriginal students.

Jackie

The following podcast is brought to you by the creative arts curriculum team from secondary learners educational standards directorate of the New South Wales Department of

Education. As we commence this podcast today, let us acknowledge the traditional custodians of all the lands on which this podcast will be played around New South Wales. Their art, storytelling, music and dance along with all First Nations People hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal Australia. Let us acknowledge with honour and respect our elders, past, present and future, especially those Aboriginal people in our presence today who have and still do guide us with their wisdom.

Alex

Welcome to the Creative Cast podcast series. My name is Alex Manton and I'm a creative arts curriculum officer with the New South Wales Department of Education. The area of discussion today is Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspectives in the music classroom. As music teachers, how do we approach this in a culturally sensitive way? How can we gain access to relevant resources to integrate into our programs? How can we improve learning outcomes for Aboriginal students and, finally, how can we make the content meaningful for our students today? We'll be talking to music teacher Dr Thomas Fienberg and Mr Anthony Galluzzo, who currently holds the position of K-6 advisor for Aboriginal Outcomes and Partnerships Directorate for the Department of Education.

Dr Thomas Fienberg recently joined the music education faculty at the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, transitioning into the tertiary sector from his previous role as Head Teacher Creative and Performing Arts at Evans High School. In 2017 he was awarded by ASME New South Wales Barbara Mettam award for Excellence in Music education and was a nominee for the Telstra Aria Music teacher award in 2020.

Anthony Galuzzo is a proud Wiradjuri man born in Narendra and from a proud Narendra Italian family. Inspired by his mother's passion and strength around Aboriginal education, Anthony studied primary teaching at Charles Stuart University, Wagga Wagga. Anthony has spent his 17-year teaching career in positions in rural regional New South Wales, Metropolitan Sydney and in various non-teaching roles across the state gaining his current role as the K-6 advisor for the Aboriginal Outcomes and Partnerships Directorate at the beginning of term 3 2020 where he hopes to continue to be a voice for Aboriginal communities, students, staff colleagues, and wider school communities.

Welcome Anthony and Tom. Firstly can you each share with us just a little bit about yourself and how you became to be interested in Aboriginal education, Anthony.

Anthony

Yeah, thank you for having me today. I suppose my interest, as you've mentioned it in my intro, stems from the fact that my mum has been a passionate and committed Aboriginal educator for close to 40 years and she just recently retired. But I suppose for me being an Aboriginal person, being Aboriginal is who I am, but I wanted to be into this space in terms of Aboriginal education. So, I've worked in a number of roles now that look at Aboriginal education. Regionally was the space that I was in before and that regional Aboriginal education space. And now I'm in the state space. So, looking at programs, initiatives, curriculum space, and looking at what's happening in Aboriginal education perspectives. So, I suppose for me, it's not only being able to be a voice for my people, it's also about being able to be in that space of putting a cultural lens over everything that we do in the Department and making sure that our stories, our journeys and histories are at the forefront of everything that we're doing. I always say that our education, we achieve success when we look at it in the way of when the sun rises, not when the sun sets. And if we do that collaboration and that work right from the start, we see success and everything that we're doing in Aboriginal education. So that's part of the reason why I'm here in terms of Aboriginal education and continue in the space, but also to honestly create the best future for not only our Aboriginal kids, but also for non-Aboriginal kids and our staff as well to see their growth in terms of understanding Aboriginal histories and cultures.

Alex

Fantastic Anthony were always proud to be an Aboriginal?

Anthony

Of course, I mean it's been, since day dot, it's been a part of who I am. Obviously you've mentioned as well, I am Italian. Very similar cultures, you know, very steeped in that family traditions and customs, but I grew up in my community here in Narendra on Wiradjuri country, so growing up in the community you’re part of community and I suppose that's something that my family instilled in me is being proud of who you are, your background and making sure that you make others aware of that as well and educate others around you. But also to that there is a level of commitment you have to your culture, so being able to share our voices with other, with non-Aboriginal colleagues and making sure that I can impart my knowledge of my culture onto others so they can support our kids and I believe that in terms of education, we have a gift that we're given and that's educating the future and so being proud of who I am goes further than just what I do day to day. It's being who I am day today, but it's also about what I do and I'm so proud and honoured to be a voice for our people and I want to continue to do that.

Alex

Fantastic. And Tom can you share with us a little bit about yourself and how you became to be interested in Aboriginal education?

Tom

Yeah, well, I guess first it's important to know that I'm a non-Aboriginal person and today I'm speaking on the Darug and Gundungurra country here in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney. And as a non-indigenous person, I, like many other teachers, were frustrated and so many people avoiding teaching and sharing Aboriginal content. And as a researcher, I've tried to, I guess, share my own story and my own narrative of coming to deeper understanding of Aboriginal music and more specifically developing stronger relationships with Aboriginal people. Because that's ultimately what learning about Aboriginal music is. It's coming to grips with the people itself because you can't disconnect the music from the person. And I think that's hopefully one thing that we'll talk about today with relationship being the centre of everything that we try to achieve to have success in this area.

Alex

Definitely. That sounds really interesting. I'm looking forward to unpacking that. Tom what sparked your interest in Aboriginal education, do you think?

Tom

Yeah. Well, when I was completing my honours thesis, I went around and spoke to lots of different teachers about the teaching of the music two mandatory topic music in the last 25 years with an Australian focus. And as I went around, I asked teachers about what music they were including as part of that course, and naturally, with a topic which has an Australian focus, I thought I would ask the question about the inclusion of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander music in that space. And basically, throughout all of the people that I spoke to, it just didn't exist. And this is going a while back now and I know that teachers are including a lot more Aboriginal perspectives in teaching. But back then in 2008 there definitely appeared to be a need for somebody or people to champion the music of Aboriginal artists. And that sort of I guess started my thirst to try and be that person to bring Aboriginal voices into those different teaching spaces.

Alex

That's great tom. And I think there is a need for more awareness, particularly that music two topic for sure. For classroom music teachers, what would you like us to know before we even start programming our units of work that include music by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander artists. What should we be considering?

Tom

Yeah, well, I think the first thing to consider is do I need to have a topic that just is Aboriginal music? Or should I be searching for ways to embed Aboriginal perspectives across different types of music. Aboriginal music importantly is not a genre. And I think that's the first thing that teachers need to come to the understanding of. Aboriginal people make music and that music might represent different genres. It might be popular music or could be jazz, it could be art music. I think that teachers need to be pretty aware about where are they choosing this music to be featured in? And I guess trying to represent Aboriginal voices across all of their teaching spaces as opposed to just in a three week unit on Aboriginal music itself.

Alex

So if we had a traditional piece of Aboriginal music, how would we refer to it?

Tom

Well, I think the first thing would be to say about the country which it comes from. So rather than say, I'm going to play some traditional Aboriginal music, you might say today, we're going to share some music that comes from Wiradjuri country that was composed by this particular person. I know that when I'm dealing with that kind of music, I try to avoid just using it as a, as a Youtube clip or as something that just exists in isolation. I prefer to try and engage people who own the music, who have the ability to explain it on a deeper level. I try and get people into the classroom who can share the dance that goes with it as well, because music and dance is so interrelated. And I think that it's great to be able to empower the people who are creating, or sharing that music to come into your classrooms to take ownership over it. But I think probably the main lesson that I would have, the main piece of advice for teachers out there was, traditional is a bit of an awkward word to use, because when you think traditional, you think it's generally associated with old, but tradition is living, it's continuously evolving, tradition and contemporary can mean the exact same things. But I think that if we can start thinking about the different countries and music representing different countries, I think that's a great way to start.

Alex

Anthony. Do you have anything to add?

Anthony

I suppose I'm going to echo some of Tom's words around that voice of Aboriginal people and looking at, you know, local community. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention and highlight that there really is a need and our syllabus documents call for connecting with local community. And I think something that our teachers struggle with is that connection with local community. So, it really stems off that relationship and developing that with your local community and bringing them into the classroom. What a wealth of knowledge, what a wealth of opportunity that you can get from connecting with local community and having those discussions around the music and the local community. And I think Tom mentioned it previously around, you know, that we're looking Aboriginal genres and we look at what's out there and acknowledging that there's stuff out there and people weren't doing that before, it was in that too hard basket. We won't do it, we don't want to be sensitive, we don't want to step on someone's toes so we'll just avoid it. Unfortunately, if we avoid it, our kids don't learn and our kids aren’t provided the opportunity to celebrate, to understand and hear stories and the journeys of Aboriginal people and you know, right in their own backyards, they have local people who have a wealth of knowledge and experience in Aboriginal music and some of it linked is traditional because that's our story lines, our song lines have stemmed for thousands of years and continue to grow through our future generations. So, we should be tapping into our communities and that just that steps right even beyond music as well into other subject areas. We need to be looking at whether it's in creative and visual arts, whether it's in PD/H/PE, maths, is connecting with local communities. And I also see this thing of just making sure that we develop those relationships to provide opportunities and cultural, safe space for our community to do that. The other thing I want to mention and follow on from that is around having an acknowledgement of those who are not local, where they're from, so if you're not using people from the local area, it's recognizing it, and I mentioned it before, was around acknowledging what country they're from. One of the things in my role, current role and previous role I like having a one of the Aboriginal language maps and marking and acknowledging each country each artist is from, because our students need to understand there is diversity within Aboriginal culture and history as well. So, within our communities, we're not homogeneous, we're all different, we have different tastes, we have different styles, we have different instruments, we have different instruments with different didgeridoo with different types of wood, you know, there's such differences in our community. We need to highlight that diversity and celebrate it. So, one of the things I would always suggest we have a map mark reach artists from. So you understand their story, their journey in their voice. And that's what I want to see more in the classroom. Is that our teachers really celebrating sharing but respecting local content, nation content, Aboriginal artist from wherever they're from, but really respecting that and instilling that in our students to be respectful of Aboriginal voices, the oldest ongoing living culture in the world. And we want to continue to, you know, this is our shared history. We all share this together, we want our kids to be proud of that. So, I think in our music classrooms we have the opportunity to do that.

Alex

Absolutely. Anthony how do teachers go about making contact with someone in their community? What avenues and what resources are out there, where can we send them?

Anthony

Yeah, absolutely. I think the first place is in within your own schools, most schools have an Aboriginal staff member. Most schools have a designated Aboriginal key contact person. Sometimes your executive members have that as well. They have connections with local community. The other thing is to your local AECG and it’d be remiss of me not to acknowledge as well as the AECG and New South Wales Department of Education Partnership Agreement, which is around that, walking together and working together. So, making sure that our schools on a local level are connecting with the local acts who are wealth of knowledge and provide pl and opportunities around various areas started connecting connect with. But the other thing is too, is your regional teams and the directorate name has changed, but you have advisers there now. The role that I was previously in was the Aboriginal educational wellbeing adviser role based out of Arncliffe. Now they've change directorate title and changed directorates. They’re now sitting with teacher quality and impact. But their experience and knowledge is around embedding perspectives, curriculum knowledge, education experience. So, they are able to connect you with and work with you to connect with local community, connect with, I suppose, experts in the field, but also people who want to work into classrooms, who want to work with kids, work with staff. And I think, you know, what a great opportunity that is to do that.

Alex

The next question, is there anything that we shouldn't do that is perhaps culturally inappropriate?

Tom

Look, I think that the best way I can phrase this is, well, there's always this quest for cultural appropriate, like engagement with community, but ultimately, what we're looking for is teachers to teach with integrity. There's only so much appropriateness you can achieve. And it's quite a scary thing because the difference between appropriate and then appropriation is obviously a challenging thing that teachers often used as an excuse to avoid sharing Aboriginal music. But I think that the best way to get around it is to just collaborate. If you're working with community, if you're sharing what you're doing with elders within your community or with the Aboriginal staff at your school's or with people from the Department of Education, then you're probably going to be in an okay space. I think that it's just about trying to create an open dialogue where you have people that you can share your ideas with and then teach with confidence knowing that what you're doing isn't just from your own ideas of your own creation. It's something that you've shared and you've spoken with community because when you go to teach that in your classroom, you're going to teach that with a lot more confidence knowing that you've put in the work to share what you're doing with people from the community. And I think that students are really looking for that validation of you're the right person to share this information. We've got to remember that our students are saturated with Aboriginal content so they get exposed to a lot of information about Aboriginal and Torres strait islander histories and cultures. And I think that when they see that somebody has put in the work to work alongside community or if you bring somebody in within your particular subject, immediately, that has so much more meaning than endless YouTube videos that get shown in history classrooms or watching Rabbit Proof Fence for the 15th time. I think so they are actually also seeking for these opportunities to learn more about culture because Aboriginal education isn't just responsibility for Aboriginal people, it's everyone's responsibility.

Alex

Great. Thanks tom. Let's talk Aboriginal pedagogy. I love the eight ways, which is what it was called for a while, but we now refer to it as Aboriginal pedagogy. Why is this important and how can it be applied to the music classroom?

Anthony

I think what's really important is acknowledging the eight ways of learning and for anyone who doesn't know the eight ways of learning, it was entitled that because Dr Tyson Yunkaporta along with community in far west of New South Wales developed this framework together and because it's eight ways from that area, it's entitled that, so we call that Aboriginal Pedagogy, but I suppose when we look at it, we look at it as the eight ways or the eight pedagogies that I suppose students can learn through these eight pedagogies as an entry point of knowing or learning. So, when we look at those eight ways and it's no different to what teachers do on a daily basis, it's putting a name to it. But what I really like about eight ways, it's those eight pedagogies learning through culture, not about culture. So, when we truly talk about embedding perspectives and embedding Aboriginal ways, this is the way and everything that you do in the classroom can be utilized or can be defined as being through one of these eight ways. And I think the idea about the gateway system is, you know, it's structured in the way of an Aboriginal kinship system, but you're not learning about kinship, you're learning through kinship, you know, so it really is embedding and really having staff work with their students through Aboriginal ways. But I think Tom said that before, when he said, you know, Aboriginal education isn't just Aboriginal peoples business, everyone's business, and this is a shared history. So Aboriginal eight ways, everyone, everyone can use. It doesn't matter whether you are in a school that has zero population or a school that has a high population. The Aboriginal eight ways really provide staff with an opportunity to educate students in the classroom. But what I like about it, it goes to that thing of sharing voices, story, reconstruct, deconstruct, you know, all of those things that you would do in a music classroom anyway, but really aligning it to something and I think it really is about respecting Aboriginal culture at the end of the day and I think it's around acknowledging, you know, the ways of learning, that have been trialled and tested and are still thriving continuing today and you know, what better way to continue that with our future with our kids in the classroom.

Alex

Anthony, when I had a look at the eight ways as a teacher a while ago, I thought, well this is so intuitive and you're right, I'm doing it anyway, you know, all the aspects of my teaching, I could tick off those eight ways quite easily and it just made sense. I love it. And I think that if there's any teachers out there that haven't checked out the eight ways or Aboriginal pedagogy, you should google it for sure to make sure that you're incorporating that in your own classrooms. Tom is there anything that you'd like to add to that about the eight ways or Aboriginal pedagogy?

Tom

I think the music teachers, we need to understand that music and song was a major way that Aboriginal culture and history was shared between Aboriginal people. So immediately we're operating in the space that is a natural learning space for Aboriginal stories. Song lines too are the maps that Aboriginal people used to travel through country. So, as music teachers, I think we're in a really fortunate position to be able to share stories to participate in these ways of learning that have been lived for thousands and thousands of years. So, I think that we shouldn't be afraid of that. Aboriginal stories have been shared for generations and we should see where is our opportunity to engage in that ongoing story. We've not only our Aboriginal students that are non-indigenous students as well.

Alex

So Tom, I might throw to you first for this one, who are your favourite Aboriginal music artists to teach and why?

Tom

There's so many, probably the ones that over the years that I keep returning to again and again, probably Thelma Plum’s a great starting point for me because when I first was, I guess in my early teaching days at JJ Cahill High School Mascot, I was really searching for Aboriginal artists and I was really wanting to find out more and more about, I guess, these emerging people in the industry and at the time Thelma Plum had just released, I think one or two songs on Triple J unearthed, and this is before she'd really hit some mainstream prominence. And there was a song that went for about a minute thirty I think, that it's just a super short track and it was called Father Said, and it just was beautifully simple in its construction, a lovely melody to it. And just musically I knew that straight away this is a great song for the classroom and when I went about sharing that in my class and the students really enjoyed learning it. And I'm still teaching it today, using it in my year 7 program. And it's just a song that really resonates with a lot of people. I think importantly, it's a song that doesn't explicitly discuss Aboriginal history or Aboriginal culture. It's just a song in itself. And I think that's a really powerful thing for music teachers too, not essential to what Aboriginal music is. It allows the artist to be whoever they want to be. And in Thelma Plum’s cases, as a Gamilaraay woman at that stage in her career, she just wanted to share the stories of a 17 year old woman in that space and following Thelma’s journey and seeing her I guess gradually start to get more explicitly explore her culture through music I think is a really interesting journey to track because Thelma definitely over the years has come to be a that's very prominent representative of the Aboriginal music community and with that quite a lot of abuse over the years. So, I think that's an important story to tell in terms of the challenges that Aboriginal artists face in the broader music community and the fact that she started with a song like Father Said, and then transition now towards include like songs like Better and Black, which is just an incredible track and tune, which I'm also using quite a lot these days. I think that that personal journey of the artist is really important and I think that she's somebody who definitely, I think that music teachers should be trying to tell that whole story of the person as opposed to just playing Better in Black because it's got explicit reference to black issues.

Alex

Anthony. Who are your favourite Aboriginal music artists?

Anthony

I suppose I look at it from a number of perspectives growing up Aboriginal, in my community, you know, I grew up listening to country music, a lot of my local family here listen to country, my nan was national, female country music, Aboriginal female country music artist of the year in the late seventies, you know, so that was really great. But it was about togetherness and our stories and our journeys together and sharing and celebrating. So, I suppose this thing, those artists of the time, you know, you listen to Uncle Archie Roach and we listen to those political movements songs in the seventies, you know, Take The Baby Away and you know those songs that really which in the time for Aboriginal people, but then I suppose growing up today, you know, we have to see the songs of the 90s, you know, you're Warumpi Band and Christine Anu songs and you're From Little Things, Big Things Grow and those songs are really popular at the time. But you're right. I think Tom it really is. I mean, who doesn't love Thelma Plum? Like she is just what a true representation of Aboriginal people is our stories and our story and sharing that and I mean her voice is amazing on top of that, but I think it's what you're hearing. So from a primary perspective as well in the classroom, I think for me as an educator, it's really been around using music wherever I can. So, I taught kindergarten for eight years. I made sure I had Aboriginal artists playing all the time. When we were doing handwriting and painting we were listening to an up tempo we’d be listening to Treaty by Yothu Yindi. We'd be listening to Gurrumul when we were doing handwriting, we'd be listening to the Jessica Mauboy.

It didn't matter what we were doing I always had Aboriginal artists playing because really was about sharing rather than, you know, making sure we're just doing a unit on teaching this. I embedded it in everything that I did. But I suppose now when providing professional development and providing professional learning and talking to the music educators now talk about the music that is now in the Aboriginal voice. It's the Thelma Plums, Ziggy Ramo, Barkaa, Miiesha, there's the, you know, the next generation Rebecca Hatch’s of the world. But then we have our traditions, we have our Deborah Chatham's, you know, we I had a conversation off the podcast around Deborah Chatham, you know what an icon in terms of music for Aboriginal people. And you know, we don't forget those, but we also remember those people that are moving forward with our stories and the true history telling. You know, that we mentioned of Ziggy Ramo and Thelma Plum. And I'd be remiss as well if I didn't mention a lot of our artists who use music and language in their songs. You know, I think that's really seeing it popularity rise, Baker Boy, you know, using, you know, not only the didgeridoo as part of his strong part of his music, but using language and Aboriginal languages throughout his song. I was listening to Triple J the other day and JK-47, you know, he was doing a song, his interpretation. So, I'm going to use language throughout and it was just amazing. And as an Aboriginal person, my pride just hearing, it's not my own language, but hearing Aboriginal language as part of his song popular for the entire Australian nation to hear just is really amazing.

I suppose I'd encourage teachers to, you know, share the diversity of our singers, you know, the future of seeing as, you know, the Mitch Tambo’s and the Rebecca Hatch, but also celebrating and sharing song artists of the past and giving our kids the opportunity to share everything that is great about our voices and our stories and our artists and I know that a lot of our staff failed. You know, there is times they will steer clear of some of the political nature of our songs, but I think it, what it really comes down is truth telling and truth telling, our history, our stories and we shouldn't steer away from because it can be a bit sensitive or be a little bit harsh, but it's our truth and our stories and it's our voices and that's what we want, and that's why the artist sharing our voices and our stories and we want to share that. So, I can't sort of encourage teachers enough to make sure they're sharing those stories as well. And just because they can be political, it's our stories and our journeys and we really want to tell the truth. So, you know, please continue. Listen, no matter whether they're on the radio or Triple J, whether in the country charts, you know, listen to all of them. The diversity is beautiful and amazing. I think we need to continue to celebrate and share that.

Alex

That's fantastic, Anthony. What a lucky kindy class you had.

Anthony

Eight years, long years, but certainly every single day you just didn't know what you're going to expect. And I had the opposite of you because I don't know how you guys do it but I'll tell you what nothing prepares you for teaching, teaching kindergarten.

Alex

And finally, Tom what further advice can you give to help improve outcomes for our Aboriginal students?

Tom

I think the first thing is just to try and keep our Aboriginal students doing music and getting them to choose the electives. And showing them that our music classrooms are a safe and welcoming space for them to continue their learning. When I was at JJ Cahill and I was completing a PhD focused on research within that particular space, it was one of my great frustrations that I've had these, I had these great relationships with Aboriginal students, but for whatever reason, despite my including of all this music in my programming, they weren't continuing doing music beyond year 10. So I think that one thing that I've done in the space at Evans High School is really trying to focus on providing opportunities for Aboriginal students to engage in art making more specifically music at younger age groups and supporting them in their own journey and encouraging them to pursue the subject beyond. And I guess, mandatory music and then elective music in year 9 and 10. So for me, one of the things that was really important in helping those students continued pursuing music was the solid ground program where we were able to bring in professional musicians to support and mentor the students, they didn't have to be choosing music at that particular point in time. But what happened was through this program, they were feeling more supported and encouraged to continue with their music. And so many more students now are choosing to do music the music one course, or choosing to do year nine or year 10 elective music. And I think that shows that teachers really need to be proactive in supporting our Aboriginal students to engage in the arts because as Anthony alluded to there so many amazing examples out there in the industry, and I think that teachers need to really encourage our students to keep pursuing those interests that they may have or may be hiding because the culture of shame is definitely something that does prevent a lot of our Aboriginal students from sharing culture openly. And it really does require our teachers to build relationships with them too, be trusted to support them in their own journey in education and ultimately being successful students and future leaders in our communities.

Alex

That's interesting. That was going to be my next question, actually. From your experience, do you find that Aboriginal students, do want to have that conversation with you? Are they mostly proud of where they've come from and who they are and want to have that attention placed on them in the classroom? I know as a music teacher myself, I've had very mixed reactions. What has been your experience with that? Are most of them happy to have that conversation with you?

Tom

I think that it's really important not to other the students in the classroom. You might look at your role in central or whatever management system you're using and you've seen a box ticked where their Aboriginal and there's nothing worse than you can do as a teacher is go okay, we're learning about Yothu Yindi today, the first person I'm going to ask about what they think about this is the Aboriginal student in the room. Some students do like being the voice for their people, but remember that we're dealing with teenagers here, we're not dealing with academics. We've got people who are, in my circumstance at Blacktown, often extremely disconnected from their Aboriginal history. They don't actually know which mob they come from. So, it's really challenging for teachers to then to go in and put them on the spot and say, what do you think about this as an Aboriginal person? But I know that for me, particularly having finished up at Evans and got some quite nice little cards from some of my students that I was teaching, for them, it was about they know that when they enter my classroom it's a safe space to learn. It's a place where Aboriginal culture is valued, it is shared and it is taught with integrity. So, I think that the inclusion of the music of Aboriginal artists is an important part of teachers being able to show that they are listening to their community, they are listening to country, they’re understanding, they’re contextualizing the music. So, a good example for in my own practice was a project that I did last year with a year 12 class, none of whom were Aboriginal students. We created a concert to coincide with NAIDOC last year which was towards the end of the year. And as part of a concept, we were working alongside Emma Donovan through the solid ground program who is an incredible artist who brings so much, her soul music is really powerful and heavily grounded in countries that she comes from. So, I think that when we were doing this concert, like we were, we wanted to share the music of other amazing artists as well. And, in the concerts, we played about 12 or 13 songs from different artists across the nation. And we made sure that when we were talking about the artists and we were introducing them, we were talking about the countries which they came from and Emma was watching this concert and she hadn't seen us rehearsing for her and she was just blown away that she, as an Aboriginal woman was able to learn about all these artists who she actually were very good friends with but didn't actually know where they were from and to see non-indigenous people playing that music sharing that music was a really powerful experience for her as an Aboriginal artist. And she mentioned at the beginning of the concert that it's really important for all people to be able to share this music because Aboriginal voices historically have been silenced. And it's a very powerful thing for music teachers to include the music of like there's so many like in this particular concert just to run you through some names because I know that teachers love listening to these things and jotting down some things to listen out. We did a song called twisting words by Miiesha who’s a Pitjantjatjara and Torres Strait Islander woman, a song called Lady Blue by Emily Wurramara from Groote Eylandt - Warnindhilyagwa Country in Northern Territory. We did a few Thelma Plum songs. We did a song called Dribble by an emerging artist Sycco who's from Torres strait islander descent. We did a song by Wiradjuri person Mo'Ju called Put it on Hold, from Anthony's country. We perform this on Alice Skye, Grand Ideas. Alice Skye actually connected in with the student who was learning that song and sent her lyrics and that's one of the big things that I try to encourage is to get the students to reach out to the artists through social media and know that they're performing the music. Another person who spoke to us back after about it was Benny Walker. He's a young man from Victoria and he shared the lyrics to his song to the student, which was greatly appreciated because he really struggled to, to hear the lyrics properly in the song because he's a bit of a soul singer and that was a tune called Small Mind and there's so many more I could like list endlessly these different types of songs, but for an Aboriginal woman to, and Aboriginal artists like Emma Donovan to be blown away by non-indigenous students performing Aboriginal music. I think that shows the power that you can have when not only you include the music, but you share it back with community. And I think that's what we all need to strive towards is not just including it, but sharing it back. Because a relationship needs to be reciprocal. It shouldn't just be one way with us taking, it should be us giving as well at the same time.

Alex

Anthony, do you have any further advice?

Anthony

I suppose, you know, we've talked about today about respect and respecting and giving back to community. One of the things I will say is that for Aboriginal people and the Department of Education has a fractured history because of past policy imposed on Aboriginal people in community. And we're not talking hundreds of years ago, we're talking late 60s, early 1970s and thereafter. But there's still some disconnect and we want to repair those. So, making our schools and our classrooms a safe, culturally safe space for our kids and our families to walk into. And that means when you have your own Aboriginal student in your classroom or, you know, Aboriginal students within your school, you know, develop relationships with them and their families as best you can and work with your Aboriginal staff to improve those. One of the things I want to say about music classes and kids going on to further education and music space, kids can't do what they can't see. So, if they don't see themselves in those music courses, they're not going to do them. If those courses don't really appeal to them or have a strong sense of, you know, there is an opportunity for Aboriginal voice to be a part of that, they're not going to do that, and I think, you know, we talk about great opportunity for our kids to grow, but a space where they can actually do that using their voice and their voice is going to be encouraged.

So, having those higher expectation relationships with them is really important as well, knowing that they can achieve, but then expecting them to achieve as well, you know, we have shame factor, I would say, you know, don't be ashamed be game. We want to see our kids do that, but if we don't expect our kids to achieve high and we just accept whatever they're going to bring, they're not going to go further or strive for the best that they can be, and we want to see that we want to see that in our kids. So, I suppose it really is about developing that, that high expectation relationship.

There are two more things I wanted to also add. First was around and we talked about NAIDOC in music. Know that NAIDOC is one week of the year, but it doesn't stop there. Let's not just do Aboriginal music, Aboriginal art in one week of the year and then maybe pulling it back out for sorry day and reconciliation week. Let's celebrate the rest of the school year. You know, it doesn't have to be what we're going to do this genre. Let's make it Aboriginal genre. As we mentioned before, let's use Aboriginal artists in whatever you're doing. You know, whether you're looking at instruments, whether you're looking at artists, whether you're looking at a voice, whether you're looking at rap, where they're looking at opera, use Aboriginal artists, use Aboriginal voices. One of the other things I suppose that goes with that is making sure that our kids have an opportunity connect with local community as well. So where and when possible really connect with local community. Our staff don't do this and they don't do it enough. It's the easy way out to find someone or an artist who's on a bigger scale and they forget our local artists. And then what happens is that relationship with our local community continues and that divide keeps going further apart rather than closing because we don't know how to connect with our local community. So, I can't implore staff enough to connect with local community. There is going to be some of this new community. Please connect with them. You know, don't just go for our big amazing artists all the time while they're amazing. There's something great artists in your local community. Please connect with them. And I think the other thing is around true consultation, you know, really needs to be around listening to Aboriginal voices. Don't pick the parts that you want because it's easy, you know, a circle doesn't fit into a square. That doesn't mean we forget everything that our local communities are saying, well we're only going to choose that part because we don't like that part and that's what quite often happens. And then our community as well, that was a waste of time. I'm not going to communicate again, I'm not going to consult. So, let's talk about true authentic collaboration, respectful collaboration and you'll see all students their wellbeing improved, their engagement improve and that will lead on to greater connections and relationships and improve outcomes at the end of the day. And it's going to be such amazing space when, you know, when our staff feel confident, you know, when there is encouraged by local community, they'll see confidence in their own abilities, but also to in using, you know, more Aboriginal artists and reaching out to for help from colleagues around them. But it is about those respectful relationships and honouring those.

Alex

Where should teachers look for resources?

Tom

I think that in the first place that they should try and look for resources that are directly resources produced by Aboriginal people. There’s an amazing resource that music teachers across the country should be using is one that's Being Prepared, by Jesse Lloyd, and it's the Mission songs project. It's got a fabulous book for choir which people can access, which has all these songs, which Jesse is collected across the country that were written by Aboriginal people who lived in missions and reserves. It's a great resource because it allows teachers to discuss difficult conversations, but also from the perspective of an Aboriginal person who's created the resource. As much as teachers would probably love for me to publish textbook after textbook dealing activities associated with Aboriginal artists. I think that it's great if we can look for resources written by Aboriginal people. And secondly, I think my main resource is the music itself. Just letting the music speak on its own is a great way of teaching and sharing music that might be just playing the songs by some of the Aboriginal artists that we've mentioned today in class listening to the music, embedding it while you're discussing different aspects, Aboriginal musicians operate in all different types of spaces. We've discussed a lot about Aboriginal popular musicians, but within the field of art music, there's many, many, many emerging artists who are releasing music out there and would be great to connect in with, particularly if you're operating in that music two, and music extension space or with students who are really interested in that particular area.

There's a program that's been headed up by a First Nations composer and academic called Christopher Sainsbury and it's called the Ngarra-Burria, which indirectly means to sing into hear and that program supports First Nations composers interested in creating classical music. One person who I've worked with quite closely over the years is Eric Avery. He is an amazing violinist and composer and he had the opportunity to collaborate with Yo-yo Ma. There's a great video out there of him improvising alongside Yo-yo Ma when he came out to Sydney that long ago. But there's so many people who have been involved in that program and I know that ABC classic have published articles and provide information about that program. So, I think that it's definitely something to google if you're thinking about how can I include this? If I'm teaching in a space where we cover a lot of art music, particularly for students heading into that music to pathway.

Alex

That's fantastic, and Anthony, did you have anything to add?

Anthony

Yes. So I suppose the thing that I would like to mention is around and I mentioned before around local content, some of our elders will deliver their welcomes to country in a format that's different to the tradition of spoken or speech delivered. They will do it in song and dance to connect with the local community around that. What a powerful thing. Getting local stories and local song through our elders who deliver a tradition that has been continuous for thousands of years and through that medium of their welcome to country. The other things with your regional space and state space. So, I work in Aboriginal Outcomes and Partnerships Directorate. We have a 7-12 advisor and a K-6 advisor. We also have a secondary and a post schooling advisor and an early years advisers. So whatever space you're in, we work with other curriculum advisors. We are from that space or I'm yes primary trained, but I've experienced Aboriginal education and other parts of education. So that's another avenue. We also have regional teams that you can connect with as well, who can connect you with local artists as well as some regional artists who may be connected with your local acts as well. It's another point of reference, you know, there's people around you to support you, you're not on your own. And I think when we talk about the department support mechanisms that are there to support you in the classroom, to support our kids. So, don't forget those.

But I will finish with Tom's messages of, you know, connecting with the music. You can't go wrong if you connect with the music. Aboriginal voices for Aboriginal people, by Aboriginal people, won't let you down. But it'll also be you're hearing from people first and foremost, and we talk about appreciation, not appropriation. You're appreciating artists, you know, you're not appropriating and if you're listening to it and sharing and appreciating it. The other thing is around that, sharing that with all of our colleagues as well. So, sharing what you have with other colleagues and don't think that what you're doing is not helpful to someone else. And we quite often forget that not that closed-door policy, share it with the teacher down the road, show the teacher in the next classroom and it might be something they can utilize.

So, keep seeing what's out there, keep researching, check with colleagues, check with local community. You're certainly going to support our kids.

Alex

Fantastic. Thank you so much Anthony and Tom for sharing your knowledge and expertise in all areas of Aboriginal education. The advice that you've given today has just been absolutely wonderful and so valuable and I'm sure that many music teachers will learn a lot from listening to speak today. Thanks again.

Jackie

This podcast was brought to you by the creative arts curriculum team of secondary learners, Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education. Get involved in the conversation by joining our statewide staff room through the link in the show notes or email our creative arts curriculum advisor, Cathryn Horvat at creativearts7-12@det.nsw.edu.au. The music for this podcast was composed by Alex Manton and audio production by Jason King.

[end of transcript]

Listen to an insightful discussion on music theory, engaging students with the concepts of music, and an extensive list of revision tips for the HSC.

Jackie

The following podcast is brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team from Secondary Learners, Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education.

As we commence this podcast today, let us acknowledge the traditional custodians of all the lands on which this podcast will be played around New South Wales. Their art, storytelling, music and dance, along with all First Nations People, hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal Australia. Let us acknowledge with honour and respect our elders, past, present and future, especially those Aboriginal people in our presence today who have and still do guide us with their wisdom.

Alex

Welcome to the Creative Cast Podcast series. My name is Alex Manton and I'm a Creative Arts Curriculum Officer with the New South Wales Department of Education. The area of discussion today is the importance of the concepts of music. We will be talking to music teacher and author of Musical Elments and Concepts textbook Helene Galettis, who will discuss what the concepts of music means to us as music educators and how we can facilitate quality teaching and learning in the delivery of the concepts of music in the classroom. Helene is the managing director of the publishing company Zeal Arts Enterprises, which develops resources to the support of the arts and has most recently published a comprehensive guide to improvisation. Helene presents at various HSC workshops for teachers and students around New South Wales, mainly in regional areas. She has teaching experience in all of the New South Wales school systems as well as in tertiary education. Helene's dedication to music education resulted in her achievement as a finalist for the 2008 A. S. G. Inspirational Teacher Awards as part of the National Excellence in Teaching Awards.

Jackie

We interrupt this podcast for a very special announcement. The Creative Arts Curriculum Team announce our Creative Casting Call. This initiative provides two exciting ways that you and your students can get involved in our podcasts and earn some much needed funds for your creative arts faculty budget. First, compose our podcast music. Compose some music we could use for the intro and outro for our podcast next term. The best composition will be used in our podcast next term and win your school a $2,000 grant for creative arts. The second is design next term's promotional tile. Our podcast theme for next term is where to from here. The best tile will be used for our Where to From Here Podcasts next term and also win your school a $2,000 grant for creative arts. Find the full brief in the Creative Arts Statewide Staffroom. Entries for next term close on the last day of term three with the winning composition and tile to be featured and credited in term four’s podcasts. This initiative is only available to New South Wales Department of Education Schools 2021.

Alex

Hi Helene. How are you?

Helene

Oh good. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Alex

So firstly can you share with us just a little bit about yourself as an educator?

Helene

Well, I'm pretty passionate about music education. I do come from a long line of teachers so it was kind of inevitable that I would have become a teacher. Anyway, I did a lot of work in music growing up and I am passionate about music education. As you did mention, I have taught in all systems and as well as tertiary and I wrote a textbook. It was published by Jacaranda in 2009. I started writing it in my fifth year of teaching and I wasn't even eligible for HSC marking at that point because I hadn't taught year 12 for long enough but I thought that there was a need for a resource for that. And yes, since then I've been asked to do lots of workshops for students and teachers locally and nationally.

Alex

Great. Helene, can you tell us a little bit more about the types of students that choose music at your school at an elective level for 9 to 12? Do you have many HSC students currently?

Helene

We have music two and music one running at the school. I'm only fairly new to the school but music two I believe has been running for quite a while there but the numbers are quite low, so one or two and they run together. So, the music two and the music one in the class as some music teachers are in that same position. But the types of students are involved a lot in the music ensembles throughout their schooling anyway. And then they do tend to choose elective and senior music as well. In my career of teaching, I have taught mainly music one I believe of the popularity of the course.

Alex

What was the motivation behind writing your book, The Concepts of Music?

Helene

So at the time there wasn't really an Australian book written for preparation for the HSC course. The students were going to a lot of other subjects and they had a resource for that subject. They didn't really have anything for music. It was completely reliant on the teacher and the school I was at, it was very performance based. The boys weren't in a position to get private tuition, partly because they couldn't afford it, but also because it wasn't really a priority of their families. I was a singing teacher, I was the instrumental teacher, you know, I helped them with that. So, there was a lot of time I guess spent on that side of things, whereas other schools I've been at a lot of that tuition is done outside school and there's more time for theory and you know, your work in the classroom. So I wrote it for more independent learning for students so that if I'm working with one student then I can give another student, you know, something to do. The buzz word at the time I was teaching boys was scaffolding, so breaking things down and through teaching boys, you know, they did like that sort of learning as visual learners as well. But I was also tutoring a lot outside school and I used my mind maps which I developed for this book and I realized that all students really did like this way of breaking things down, particularly in preparation for an exam, just to explain that they're based on memory schemers and they’re triggers. I go through what a memory schemer is, and it's just a way of unpacking the concepts of music. I guess if I didn't go into music teaching, I would have gone into science. I'm quite science minded. So, the mind maps are really my brain on a page and it’s a way of, I guess categorizing the concepts of music. I made sure that I did different colours. So, I made sure that the central colour for the concept was a bolder colour and then they got lighter and lighter, the further out you got the less significant and it gave a way for teachers and students to go into as much detail as they want to with that depending on the students. As music teachers, we know that we get all different types of students as well as different experiences in music as well. So, they will come in with a different set of knowledge and all students will be like that. I also wanted to make sure that they were real sounds as well, not midi sounds. I wanted to make it relatable to the students down to the images in the book to make sure that they’re photos, not cartoons. I wanted to be more kind of that industry based in a way so that what music would really sound like and how you analyse music. But I think going back to being reliant on the teacher at the time, there was no Youtube, no Spotify, no way for students to really source these things themselves. So, it was reliant on the teacher for that aural parts too. There was nothing at the time written to link the aural and the written. So, I felt if we linked that with their own independent learning, that was a way to help them study for the exam. So, the teacher could, I guess, give the students an example of say hemiola and then it could be months later before they have to identify that in an exam. And so, this way they can go over that themselves. But it's not an all encompassing textbook. It's a stimulus. So, lots of teachers in the past have said, “oh, I love this sound bite but I've added to it.” You know, they need to add to the sound bites or add to the knowledge as well depending on what type of class they've got.

Alex

You mentioned a couple of things there, Helene, that were interesting. You said something about memory schemers, can you unpack that a little bit? What do you mean by that?

Helene

The example I give is, say if you see someone in the street and you think that you know them, as a teacher that's quite difficult for us because I think “have I taught them?” And I have gone from my past and you sort of go through the filing cabinet of your mind and I explain that memory schemer is like that if you get a question. So, if the question is explain the duration in piece of music, the student is to write, say the first branch on the piece of paper and then they would have studied the extension of those branches already and so they don't need to write out and plan all of that. Their memory has already branched that themselves. So, memory schemers are triggers, acronyms are the same as a study technique, I guess. You know, I mean, maybe not all students think like this, but it is a way of triggering your memory because as you know, we don't have the time specifically in this exam to write everything that they've studied, they just have to be triggered by something and then relate it to the music.

Alex

That's a great tip Helene to use, especially for students that are coming up to their HSC music exams. You mentioned as well earlier that your school was very much a practical kind of school in the way that things were being taught and that you wrote the concepts of music to sort of bridge that gap. Was it successful? How did you integrate those aural skills with the prac? Was there a change in your students over time? Do you think there was?

Helene

I think that if you start a discussion with certain components that relate to your students and mainly it is practical. It's a way of engaging them, the ultimate goal for me. And I think a lot of teachers engaging them and finding out how they learn. For these particular students be playing something and I would ask them quite targeted questions about the piece of music. I'd say, okay, well tell me about the structure here. Why is the chorus louder in this in this part? Tell me about the texture when you play this. What type of texture are you playing there? And you go as deep as you can go through that, they're discussing it there aurally learning about the concepts of music. And I think that not always it's explicitly taught and I think that sometimes we think we ought to teach the concepts of music, we have to say duration, it's this and pitch, it's this. But I think that when we have practical to discuss the concepts too. You know, some of these students that I taught, it was very difficult for them to pick up a pen and write anything. So that was my only way of communicating to them and I had creative ways of figuring out how to get that information to them and discussing with them. But I think more importantly, to make it relevant to them and to make it significant. We know, as adults that we only remember things significant to us. So, these students need to find a reason why they're playing this bass part and what's happening to this bass part and how it lends to another piece of music. In my workshops, I often say to students, if you're a performer, imagine that you are that drummer and what else is happening around you and how would you analyse all of those other components around you? And I think that mode of thinking does help students. The same in composition as well. If the student is very good at composition, then they can think about the concepts of music through that too. And I guess it's the teacher's role to do a bit of investigation, which is kind of what I love about music teaching, is to figure out what motivates that student, what engages that student and it's going to be different every day and it's going to be different probably every year as well.

Alex

You mentioned that you had some students that had trouble putting pen to paper. So, you'd often talk to them about what they were performing or perhaps writing aurally about the concepts. What's the next step? Well, what's your next step and then getting those students to put that pen to paper and elaborate on their answers?

Helene

Yeah, it is. And it's confidence in them writing what they already know and they are already going to know something. So even if they just write down that there's the instrument there, then you encourage them or you discuss with them about what else is happening with that instrument. It's like when you have a viva, I guess. Some can go for a very long 10 minutes and you're trying to ask the students and try and find out what they know about that. So sometimes they just need a bit more encouragement. But I think ultimately, they know something already and it's to branch what they know. And if I go back to the mind maps and you give them encouragement by showing them a mind map or building it up, they will already know something. It's the confidence to know. Okay, I always start with beat, strong and weak beat, they will know if it's a strong or a weak beat and that gives them a little bit of confidence. Some of them come with, even if they don't have a lot of musical background, I guess some of them come with the misconception that they have to know a lot of theory to do music one. But yeah, it's just encouraging what they know already.

Alex

Why is it important that students learn about the concepts of music in the music classroom, even from a stage four level? Why do you think it's important?

Helene

I think that we're very lucky in our subject to have the four components and I guess the ultimate goal of the teacher is to engage students, but we have a lot of ways to do that in music. We've got aural, composition, performance and musicology. They'll all have a way of expressing themselves and those components. And then as I mentioned before, you work with the strength of your school settings. So, you work with, and you know my school setting, that school that I was at is mainly performance and I speak about the concepts of music through that as well and however you break it down. So, I think we do talk about, we don't necessarily explicitly talk about the concepts of music from kindergarten to year 12, but we are doing it. We're saying clap to the rhythm to kindergarten students, let's stamp to the rhythm, let's walk around and they're getting a sense of beat or they're getting a sense of rhythm, they're getting a sense of a connection to the music. So, it's there it's just may not be explicitly taught. I think to explicitly teach it is because they have to do an exam. They have to do, you know, they have to write about it, they have to analyse and I think that's where sometimes it takes the fun out of it and the fear then gets instilled in some students to think, “oh no, I was just playing a second ago, but now I've got to actually write about it” but I think that they often make that divide because they think it's quite different, but they have to realise it is quite connected and it happens in all stages. So, in stage four you do have that on a very basic level and I do use mind maps for even year seven and year eight and I break it down just so they understand the whole idea of say duration or pitch. But it is, yeah, it is expressed in that way. I do my very first lesson of the year, it's called the styles of music lesson. And what I do is I play them all various styles and if it's year seven I will say to them, can you tell me whether you like or dislike the style and what style it is and why or why not? So, you'll get very superficial answers but when we get to year 8 because we're talking a little bit more about styles, I will say to them “OK why is that that style? Oh it's country, why is it country?” And then try and encourage them even further. I even do this with year 11 and 12 and I want to get specific answers from them. “Oh it's jazz, why is it jazz?” And then I take the conversation wherever it goes and however deep I need to. So, we could spend a whole lesson on the jazz example the country example. But it's getting them thinking about styles, about how that links in with the qualities that make up that style, the ingredients that make up that cake, the qualities that make up that style. So, it's just a way of encouraging them to discuss and just to talk about it.

Alex

That's fantastic. Helene, in a composition context, how do you apply the concepts to composition?

Helene

I get them to think about the concepts of music before a composition. So, what would be my aim for duration or pitch? I start off with structure actually. So how would you like to structure the piece of music? But I think that it's really important for students once they have completed a composition, I guess when is a composition ever completed, analyse their piece of music through the concepts of music. Have I done as much as I can in terms of pitch? Have I done as much as I can exploration in terms of duration and texture as well? And I think often I have found with students is that they are so happy for it to be done, that they just hand it in, they're not completed. Not necessarily not completed, they might think it's completed, but to analyse it overall. And to see as much as they can with all the concepts of music. To me, makes a complete composition in their style.

Alex

And as we're approaching HSC exams, do you have any creative ways that you approach revision of the concepts of music? You've mentioned a few so far but is there anything you'd like to add that might help our teachers or students that are listening.

Helene

Yeah. So, when I do workshops, I ask students how many of you listen to music every day, and of course all of them are going to put their hand up. You know, it's very different to when I was at school and then the more I've been teaching, the more and more they're listening, so really their aural ability should be pretty good. But then I ask them how many are actively listening and you probably just get like half of their hands up, you know. And I ask them what active listening is. And so, I encourage them the senior music students to start actively listening. And, you know, silent practice is a real thing, but silent aural training is a real thing as well. So, when they're on the bus or when they're on the train and they're listening to a piece of music, they're thinking, “oh, I can hear that bass part, what is that? It's a descending. Oh, this is the melodic contour. Oh, there's the texture here is polyphonic.” So, they're aurally, you know, actively listening there. And I've said to them that for some music teachers, it ruins some pieces of music. Well, this piece of music and oh, that's a great example of texture. That's a great example of tone colour. You know, I've got a friend who is a music teacher and she's got categories in her Spotify, let's this is the duration and pitch and you know, she does it in the car. And I think that it's good and I encourage the students to do that because I think that that would really help them aurally.

I also encourage them to leave their opinion at the door because if it's a piece of music that they have heard before, then often they analyse what is coming next when they probably only get an excerpt and also it blocks them too with if they like a style or they don't like a style too because they're listening to so much music, they're very particular about what styles of music I guess they listen to and they're not open enough. So, the whole idea is to appreciate as much music as they can. I talk to them about Spotify and I say your music teacher is not adding to your Spotify playlist, but to try and give you as much music as you can. You know, I'm sure there are music teachers out there that will say, “oh, they don't like this piece of music and it's kind of blocked them”, but I think that it takes the shock value out of it. If they were to be given a piece of music in their HSC that they haven't been exposed to before. You don't want the reaction of 20th century art music to be weird music. You know, I'm thinking a very low level, but you want them to be able to go, okay, this is in this category. And that goes back to that whole styles of music. Things you think more broadly about what makes a style of music? I think also an understanding around cultural music as well, not all performance too. And I found that some students have been a little bit ignorant about some pieces of cultural music, about how it's not just all performance, but ceremonies. And as we know, I usually start off as I mentioned before with a general analysis. So, so how I would start off with the class would be, I would probably show them a video clip of a piece of music and we would discuss that so they might discuss it in pairs and then we discuss this as a class. So, and then I would take the conversation to wherever it leads us. That's the beauty of our teachings. Then I would give them another general listening, but an audio only and this time an excerpt, I would ask them to write everything that they can hear. I encourage them to write anything they can hear and don't worry about their first comment because I think some students, they're a bit paralyzed before they write because they think, oh, I have to write about the concepts of music or I have to write about this. So as long as they're writing something and again, like I said before, just encouraging them and give them the confidence to write whatever they can hear. So, I get them to play the excerpt and once they've done that we go over the six concepts, the music, the features in that, what makes it those concepts. So, you're bringing the terminology in there. But I also get them to write down at the end of the comment which concept they mentioned and I get them to show of hands and I'll say, did you mention duration? Who mentioned pitch? Who mentioned dynamics? Then I get them to look and see which one they commented on most and which one comment on least and then which one do you need to revise more? So, I think this is really good for year 12 because the trend now has been to talk about all the concepts of music in analysis, so making sure that they cover it, emphasizing they don't and an even number of concepts, but just to make sure that they are really talking about all the concepts of music. That activity is quite useful for them. And then collect the answers and model suggested responses. I’m very careful with suggested answers. Because you've always got that one student that says, are we supposed to notate that or are we supposed to have that in the answer? So, it's not I guess not like other subjects where that is the answer an explicit answer. These are suggested responses and emphasis on suggested. So just like the NESA website, we've got suggested responses on there. That's not an all encompassing answer. It’s their suggested, it's what kind of we go from. Then I get to the mind maps, so I will break down the mind map and probably build it up along the way. If it's a class and I've got more time with them, I would start with duration and then I build up the mind about with some sound bites along the way. With the mind maps, I'm really careful not to give them the entire mind map first, I tell them that pitch is the scariest looking mind map. If they are looking at mindmaps so to build that up slowly. So if they were to look at the certain features that they're building blocks really and again, like I said before, encouragement of what they already know, and if you've got a student who feels like they shouldn't be in that class, they don't know anything, we'll just emphasis what they already do know on the other side, if you've got a student who does know a lot, you expand their knowledge to the end branches as well. But there's always other terms that that student is probably needing more revision over, I will probably get them to do a mindmap without branches and I put that on the screen and then I will get them to link the branches, that's always a bit of a fun kinesthetic activity and then I can often give them a blank mind map. So I will you know say to a student okay I'm giving you a mind map test today and they go oh no really? And so, I give them a blank mind map and then they have to connect it. Then I will look at activities where I go lower and middle and higher order thinking, so bring it all together at the end of the mind map. I will get them to look at a mind map and circle the mind map to what they hear. So, I have done this with white boards before where they write down, you know, the mind map and they have to have to circle with what they hear. The middle order thinking is answering specific questions on the components within that, so answering explicit questions and then the higher order is an HSC style question. Somewhere extended responses and you stop wherever they feel wherever they struggle, you know, and a lot of students, once they built up that mind map, then they're able to then bring it all together at the end. But it's really important to bring it all together at the end because that's ultimately what they're going to be doing. I do another whiteboard activity where I was at a school where I had whiteboard tables and I would write a concept on each of the tables and the students would have to go around and add to that mind map. You can do it on the board as well. I've done butcher's paper too. I've done it with the boys at this school because it's practical and competitive. They love anything that's competitive. So, it's a way of the students talking about, oh, I know that branch goes there or not there, so it's a really good way of them bring all that content together. I like showing them texture diagrams as well. If they're more scorebased and they've done the year 9, year 10 and they read a lot of scores, they think they can think like that. So, and I tell the students that some HSC responses can get a really high mark from a very detailed diagram. It doesn't just have to be a diagram and then you leave it from experience. Some of the diagrams are really good, but they don't put enough detail in them to actually help them. And the texture diagram is that they have really listed all the instruments that are there and they're helping themselves because they can say, okay, in the chorus, that's the most texture. And this is what's happening in the cello part of this is what's happening in the bass part. So, the texture diagram is really good for that.

Alex

Can you describe what that texture diagram actually looks like?

Helene

Yeah. So, if they were to listen to a piece of music, first of all, I would encourage them to write the sections at the top. So, say it's in a pop style. That was the introduction verse one verse two chorus, bridge etcetera, and then that's horizontal on the top, and then vertically on the side that would be writing down the instruments that they can hear. And once the instrument appears in that section, they will, I guess highlight it or write exactly what's happening in that section. So, for example, the introduction for a piano, they could say high register narrow range, ascending melodic contour. I encourage the students in a texture diagram to write quotes where it's vocal, and the likelihood of students getting something vocal in the HSC exam is pretty high. So, if they were to write down the quote, they're telling the examiner where something is happening in a piece of music. And as we know, the higher marks tell us where something is happening in a piece of music. They seem to think that they have just written all this great material, but we don't know where they've heard it. So, it's not a way of getting out of it, but it's a way of helping the examiner and your teacher, the teacher know where exactly they can hear those speeches. I get the students to think like a marker as well. I get them to mark their own piece of music, but also model responses. So, I've shown a lot of samples at workshops and that's really helped teachers to know what is an eight, what is the six? What is the three? What does it look like? You know? And we know anyway, it's just that we know on our end, if we give the students that knowledge, then they're equipped with that knowledge, they know what they are expected to write rather than just comments back. So, I think that's really helpful for them, but I make it clear to them that all the concepts overlap too, that it's something that, you know, it's not just going to be one concept you guys to speak about all of them as well. And I do another activity with, I think most teachers would do, so what's making the sound, how is the sound being produced in a combination? So, is it a solo or ensemble and then more specifically when is it happening? And as we know, that's the part that a lot of students get caught up on who is performing and what are they doing. So, I think going in with those acronyms, really does help students and tools like the mind map, they're just tools to help them. It's confidence that they have done everything they possibly can before they actually walk into the exam, but making sure that they have done a lot of that application before too, that they've applied that to practice papers and then looked at model responses before too. I do like a kinaesthetic activity at workshops where they represent a layer. It actually wakes them up in these workshops because they're doing a lot of writing and a lot of listening and I get it to the point where I feel like I'm losing them. So, I get them into seven groups. And the example I used a couple of weeks ago at a workshop was Call On Me, it's a dance track and one group represents clicks, one group represents the keyboard part and they have to stand up whenever their layer is heard and then sit down when it's not heard. So, then I explain to them that physically they are the texture. And then I get the first group to stand up and I say can you just discuss your layer and tell me a little bit about your layer and I'll say okay with the clicks are on one and three and I was like okay can you notate that for me and I'll come up to the board and they'll rotate it. And then at the end of the analysis, we've actually got a full analysis from all of the individual layers. And I tell them to think about it like a loop based program like GarageBand track. And the idea actually came out from when I played an example to a class and this one girl said this just sounds like a Garage Band track where I've got eight bars at the beginning and then something else comes in after eight bars and something else comes in after eight bars. So, well, it's exactly like a Garage Band track. So then I created a GarageBand track of this song, and I showed that at workshops to show that it builds up to see those physical layers, and then I then talk a little bit more about those texture diagrams as well, about how if you were to draw something like this, this would really help you analyse the piece of music, but it gets them up, it gets them talking about their layer individually and then realising that it's the layers that comprise of the whole piece of music, not just everything compounded on them at once.

You know, and I think that a lot of students get overwhelmed sometimes when they hear an orchestral sound, like, well, hang on a second, you've only got four families there, let's break them down. So, I think that could help some students too. I think making it significant and relevant to them, like I mentioned before, giving them pieces that would engage their group. Not necessarily giving into popular culture though, but making sure that there are creative ways that you can teach them music, meta-language. I've used music for games before. And there are some great tracks for some of these, this game music. I had to do a lot of research because I don't really know a lot about it, but there are some really good orchestral scores out there. Some failed. Some they weren't as engaged as I thought. So, we just use it as like an audio analysis. Others are really good. They already engaged with it. So, you know, that's trial and error, I guess with whatever we play to students, but then eventually giving them pieces that we feel has a lot of content in it that they can really analyse and then branching from that too, and not just unpopular the popular side of things, but you know, making sure that we're moving into art music and if they haven't had an experience in year nine and 10 with Baroque or Classical or any kind of art music that we really expose them to that as well. Alex – That's great, Helene, you've offered so much content for our music teachers today about the concepts of music and some really innovative ideas in how to how to revise them with our students. I'm sure that the teachers are going to steal some of those ideas. Is there anything more you'd like to add before we finish up today?

Helene

I think that the music teachers really do care for their students and then we really want to find ways to engage them and to give them the confidence to write in this exam and also to perform and really, really do their best. And that's what the best thing is about our question. But the more and more we can help each other, you know, I love giving away resources. I don't mind giving away all my ideas, but the more and more we do that, the better our job will be in, the better our students will be.

Alex

That's great. Helene, thank you so much for joining us today and best of luck to all the HSC students and to our teachers that are doing an amazing job in supporting and teaching them. Thank you again.

Helene

Thank you very much.

Jackie

This podcast was brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team of Secondary Learners, Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education. Get involved in the conversation by joining our Statewide Staffroom through the link in the show notes or email our Creative Arts Curriculum Advisor, Cathryn Horvat at creativearts7-12@det.nsw.edu.au . The music for this podcast was composed by Alex Manton and audio production by Jason King.

[end of transcript]

Visual arts

Listeners will be engaged in a discussion of the history and development of the framework, and an exploration of how it is intertwined with the content of the Visual Arts Syllabus.

Jackie

The following podcast is brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team from Secondary Learners Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education. As we commence this podcast today, let us acknowledge the traditional custodians of all the lands on which this podcast will be played around New South Wales. Their art, storytelling, music and dance along with all First Nations People hold

the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal Australia. Let us acknowledge with honour and respect our elders, past, present and future, especially those Aboriginal people in our presence today who have and still do guide us with their wisdom.

Kathrine

Hello everyone. My name is Kathrine Kyriacou and I am the Visual Arts Advisor 7 -12. My guest today is Dr Karen Maras. Dr Maras is a senior lecturer in the School of Education at the University of New South Wales. As a specialist in arts education, she's program convener, Visual arts, Media Arts and Design Education. Dr Morris has a longstanding involvement in curriculum development projects and advocacy in visual arts at state and national levels in Australia. In her research, Dr Karen Maras investigates the ontological basis of critical reasoning in art. Recently, she published a journal article titled ‘Ahead of its Time,’ reassessing what is core content in Visual Arts in the New South Wales curriculum and it focused largely on the conceptual framework. So that leads us to our discussion today.

So we're going to start with a very straightforward question, Karen, can you just briefly outline for our listeners what the conceptual framework in visual arts is?

Karen

Thanks Kathy and thanks for inviting me here today to talk about this. It's been something that I've been interested in for a long time and certainly has strong connections to my research on students’ conceptual development in our subject and describing visual arts as a conceptual domain is not something that is readily taken up in other countries or in other states even or in the national curriculum. But we certainly have developed a very particular kind of understanding of how art learning occurs in New South Wales. And this framework is central to that way of considering how we describe what is content in the syllabus and how we describe how learning gravitates from, I guess naive or simple forms, to more autonomous and more complex ways of understanding what art is. The conceptual framework is like a map that defines the field of visual arts. It informs teachers of what the domain of visual arts is as a field of study and it's a conceptual system, hence the name conceptual framework. And it features four core concepts and they are the artists, the artwork, the audience and the world represented. And sometimes we call that subject matter. This network of concepts helps teachers and students to explain the relationships between these ideas of artist, artwork, audience and world. And it helps us work through explanations of art when we are making it. And also, when we're talking about it as critics or interpreting it.

Kathrine

Can you give us a little bit of a history lesson in a sense? How did the conceptual framework come about in 7-12 Syllabus documents and what needs did it meet?

Karen

Well, in the late 1990s, there was a significant review of the Higher School Certificate courses in New South Wales. This was the McGaw Review of the new HSC. And during that time, a group of us, and what I mean, who I mean by us were representatives from universities, experienced teachers, representatives from the Board of Studies, which was the predecessor of NESA and other people working in the field. And we were asked to form a project team and work through what would be the optimum content framework for Visual Arts at Stage 6 Level. And at that time and prior to that, during the 1990s, there had been considerable work undertaken by researchers on what are the conceptual basis of students’ understandings of art or their intuitive theories of art and how those theories develop. One of the key priorities for this project team or the evaluation team was to develop a report which outlined all of the empirical evidence that could be used to inform the redesign of the visual arts curriculum. And it was really excellent that we started with Stage 6 because it gave us a way of then being able to see what the endpoint was for the complexity of content at that level and then make decisions further about what content would be like in 7-10 and then what would be the foundations of content. So, in other words, this research provided us with the empirical basis of art understanding from kindergarten through to stage six or the HSC. So that was a very important decision and the conceptual framework was called to this.

So, the research came from work by Professor Norman Freeman from Bristol University and he collaborated with Professor Neil Brown from NSW in what was then called the Faculty of Art and Design. Between them, Norman and Neil did quite a lot of experiments with children of primary school age and what they worked out was children advanced their understandings conceptually using these four concepts of artist, world, work and audience. And they also identified ways in which that conceptual understanding increases in complexity as students get more confident, more autonomous in their way of explaining what artworks are and learn to develop very high-level complex ideas about art by the age of 12 or so. So, this framework is something that consolidates in students thinking by about the time they get to year seven. So, we realize that this is a really important part of the subject in terms of explaining what is the conceptual basis of learning in the subject rather than just deciding that this is all about process and we'll just get kids to explore things. We are very committed to working with students, thinking as much as they're doing about in terms of what we do in the classroom. And I think it's been an innovation that has helped many teachers too be very focused on what are the big questions I'm asking students in my classroom to consider as they're planning their programs of work.

Kathrine

Really interesting history and good for so many teachers who are so familiar in New South Wales with that syllabus to have an understanding of. So, look, there are three content areas in our current syllabus documents. Can you please briefly explain for us, and I know this is a challenge to do briefly, the relationship between the conceptual framework, the frames and practice?

Karen

This is a complex question, seemingly simple but complex, and that's because the nature of art is complex and while it's complex, there are very easy ways of dividing up how and on what terms we can think about it. What I mean by that is that we can apply logical systems of thinking and understanding in our subject, which moves us beyond common sense sort of descriptions of me, myself and my expression, to ways of thinking about art in a range of different ways which helps us. And I guess the syllabus has been around for so long and it's been able to be adapted to a very fast changing art world, the nature of which can never be anticipated. The three areas of content in the Syllabus are the conceptual framework, the frames and practice. These three areas form an interrelated system for understanding art and they help us in our thinking about art, making how we position ourselves as artists and also how we position ourselves as critics when we're interpreting art. The conceptual framework provides a map of the field, as I said earlier on, and identifies the core concepts and the relationships between them. So that's one area that we can use to start with in investigating what is art or what this instance of art might be and how it works within the art world. But using those concepts alone in the conceptual framework isn't sufficient for understanding how they actually can be applied when you're working with examples of artworks or instances of practices it's called in the syllabus. So, we need to have a way of thinking about these. What an artwork is, for example, and the very instance of looking at an artwork triggers in us all sorts of thoughts and ideas. And we see teachers doing this with students in classrooms all the time.

But what emerges in the theory about what is art is the need for a set of belief systems to help us explain what art is, and this is where the frames come into play. So, if we're talking about the relationship between an artist and an artwork and why the artist made it, we need a belief system to help us build an explanation of the reasons for the artwork existing in the first place and also the intentions of the artist. So, in other words, we activate the frames as value systems. They help us work out what to say about meaning and what the purpose of the artwork is and why artists have made them and how audiences respond to these things or interpret them as, which would probably be a better word there. They help us work out what are personal ideas that are represented in art, what kinds of cultural traditions and ideas are communicated to audiences, what sorts of symbol systems are used and how artworks. And I'm thinking here, if someone like Banksy can be quite irreverent and satirical takes on art itself and we love the ironic sort of play in those sorts of works. And we would think of the postmodern frame as something that would come into play when we're thinking about those sorts of works. So, in other words, the beliefs we have about art or the framing systems were used to explain art help us bridge the gap between those concepts in the framework. So, in other words, those lines between the concepts in the framework, in the diagrams that we see in syllabus documents are actually lines of reasoning that we can apply the frames to see what happens when we explain them from different points of view. So, the frames themselves are different points of view. The other part of the puzzle here is the concept of practice. So, in other words, when we're investigating the practices of artists, one of the things we might start with is what is the role of the artist in this particular instance of practice. So, again, practice overlaps with the conceptual framework. The framework gives us a way of talking about the concepts and talking about the field, and the theory of practice helps us talk about what is the role of the artist or the role of the critic, for example, it helps us talk about what are their intentions? What are their actions about? How do they strategize, what sorts of conventions of practice do they enact when they're working on an artwork or constructing a critical review of an exhibition, for example. So, again, that still needs to be framed. We can't talk about that in a neutral way. We necessarily have to say that some of the works by Jackson Pollock, for example, necessarily are about self-expression, which is framing it from a personal position, and the way in which we talk about those works also has to be framed from that position. And so, his practice is very much about the intuitive, self-expressive demeanour of an artist, making the sort of work that he did in the 1950s.

Kathrine

Thank you. I love hearing you unpack all those concepts because your rich discussion of the relationships between those three areas of content and even your discussion of the relationship between the aspects of the conceptual framework and those lines, signifying reasoning is fascinating to me. Lots of words there that teachers could, if they don't already, could incorporate into what they're feeding into their classes and their classroom learning. So, thank you. So, let's unpack just one aspect of the conceptual framework for our listeners. I'm going to pick area of the audience. Can you speak to us briefly about the importance of learning about this aspect of the conceptual framework?

Karen

So one of the important areas that we emphasise in the New South Wales curriculum is the concept of audience and we do that very strongly because we have included in the curriculum from K-12, the area of the critical study of art and the historical study of art. So, what we do is we say in art, we can make works and that's obviously a logical starting point for many teachers, particularly in the primary years, that might be something that seems more obvious to them and certainly lends itself to exciting classroom activities. And these activities are based on the study of artists and their practice. One of the things that perhaps could be further emphasised in the curriculum is the student's own role as audience in the work that they make, but also in studying the work of other people. So, by asking students to take on the role of audience, what we're asking them to do is to become critics of the works by other artists and also of their own and be able to make judgments about what those things mean and what they look like. What's interesting though is that often the role of the critic is reduced to this idea that you just have a response to an artwork and that that's going to be an immediate range of ideas about the artwork and that somehow that artwork will represent its own meaning to you, or it will come streaming into you from somewhere and hit you in the head like a lightning bolt and suddenly it will all become self-evident. Well, in New South Wales, what we say is that that's not actually the case. You actually need to think about meanings in terms of logical concepts, ways of reasoning about them, and also knowing something about the work itself.

So, this points us to the idea that in order to be an audience and to learn to be an art critic or an art historian who wants to tell the story or the narrative about artworks and by default, has to deal with questions of meaning. The critic is necessarily required to start looking at the work, but also situating it within the circumstances of its own production. So, looking at the work on its own without any contextual information only gets you so far. If you do some research of that artist and the work that they have produced in the time and place in which it was made, you get a really rich way of interpreting and understanding the meaning of what the work looks like. The role of the audience is certainly one that involves what Richard Wollheim, who's a theorist of esthetician, and he talks about the role of the spectator, which is the same as the role of the audience, and he talks about the role of the spectator needing some cognitive stock, which is a term I love, because it immediately points to the need to teach students something about the works as well as expect them to make inferences about what they mean and explain what they think they're about. And students are actually really good at this. The students that I had talking to me about artworks in my own PhD study, talked at length about the ways in which different sorts of portraits could be interpreted by themselves, but also, the ways that portraits could be understood differently by different audiences. So, it's not just about me as audience, it's about how do other audiences make sense of these artworks.

So, again, layering those sorts of discussions and pulling on evidence from other sorts of critics and audiences, helps students take on the role of the audience, but understand that people have different points of view at the same time. So, again, it's a complex and layered account, and the conceptual framework gives us a lovely way of positioning the audience relative to what does this artwork mean? What does it represent in terms of the world represented? What sort of subject matter does it involve? And why did the artists make it? So, it's coming at the idea, the question of art and meaning from a different position other than just making it. And it's an important way of balancing out the different practices in our subject.

Kathrine

Fantastic. And even just in your response there in talking about the audience, you've made it really clear that none of these areas of the conceptual framework can ever really be looked at in isolation because you've necessarily talked to us about the artist and about the art world and about the artwork. So that connection between all of them, you've made beautifully visible and unpacked its importance as well. So, thank you. You have discussed today the conceptual framework as enabling students to engage with fundamental questions about the big ideas in art, such as what are artworks and what are audiences, you know, what is their role? And I know you've just talked a little bit about your research and

about what you found from your work with students. Can you see learners who only have an emerging or developing understanding of the art world, easily accessing those kinds of big ideas?

Karen

They bring these big ideas to the classroom and they may not have a fully formed understanding of how all of these ideas fit together. But there is a developmental sequence in the way that the conceptual framework or a theory of art, which is really what it is in cognitive terms, emerges in people's thinking and beliefs about art. So, for example, the work that Norman Freeman and Neil Brown conducted in the 1990s was pivotal in identifying the conceptual sequencing that occurs in the way that students develop an understanding of art. So, by interviewing students from the early years of primary school through to students entering the beginning of high school, they were able to map this conceptual development and the sequencing of concepts in students’ ideas about art. So, we know that, and the work that I've done confirms a lot of this work as well. We know that students arrive in kindergarten through to about year 2, and the main framing of their understanding of art would be through the lens of the subject matter. So, they have a very literal understanding of an artwork. So, for example, in my study, one of the six year olds looked at a portrait by Angera and it was a portrait of a princess and his response was, she is so pretty, she is just lovely, because it's a really realistically painted portrait that's beautifully coloured. Now, one of the things that we're seeing in that statement is that the student is relying on the subject matter to access the meaning of the artwork. So that's a naive realist positioning of their theory of art. They have collapsed the subject matter into the concept of artwork, but slowly and surely, and with the help of teachers too, the student can be brought to an understanding that the subject matter is part of the artwork.

So, in other words, there's a picture there and it represents the princess. So, this is the beginnings of the theory of representation. And slowly but surely the students with age and over time generate explanations of art, where they start to implicate the artist in this equation. So, the conceptual framework’s like the equation for art, it's the logical equation for how things are situated. So, they can start to say, well, there's subject matter of the princess in the picture that is made by an artist. So, they're joining up the idea of the subject matter, the artist and the artwork. And they can talk about the properties of that artwork. And eventually by the end of about year six into year seven. Typically, students will get to the point where they can say, well, there's also an audience implicated in this equation. So, the artist makes the picture of the princess for an audience and they have very particular desires and purposes and motives for doing so. So, in other words, between Kindergarten and year six students are working on their own conceptual framework. So, a teacher coming into an art room and posing questions about what is this thing called an artwork. I would anticipate that younger students will just talk about it in terms of subject matter. But that's a wonderful teaching moment for them to be able to say, well hang on a second. This is actually a picture of a princess. How do we work this out? And who made this picture? And who was the picture made for? So those equations become part of the logic of thinking about art. And eventually by about year seven, we also see very firm indications that students begin to frame these explanations by drawing on ideas about creativity, expression, technical virtuosity, cultural ideas. So, for example, in my study, I had one student telling me all about the value of these different sorts of portraits, to people with different tastes and different amounts of money. Who could purchase these for display in different sorts of places, which is a really complex understanding of what the function of the picture is. So, teachers will find this as a scaffold on which to build not just students’ explanations but their own programs of learning. You can sequence, particularly in the primary school years very easily questions about art by using those relationships in the conceptual framework. So, you can move from what is a picture to how did the picture get made and by whom? Which is an artist artwork question. And those questions become much more complex when you say, how is the picture made? By whom and what is it representing? Which is a three-way relationship within that framework. And then of course, the audience can be implicated in that is the more complex end of the spectrum. So, this is something that provides access for teachers in planning, because we know that developmental leaps that students make are based on learning how to join up these concepts in a particular sequence and we can help them with that.

Kathrine

Look, I've got a final question for you, I know that you work with many pre service art teachers, often younger people who are getting to know the syllabus perhaps for the first time. And I know also that you regularly visit a range of classrooms with expert teachers and, you know, a whole range of teachers across the state, really. What are the benefits that you see for teachers for having this clear model of four concepts that make up the art world?

Karen

Well, if we go back to what I was just talking about in terms of the fundamentals of the theory of art, the conceptual framework emerges and becomes established in students thinking over the primary school years. So, it's absolutely logical that it becomes part of the fundamentals for talking about art in yera 7-10, it doesn't disappear. We just get more sophisticated in the ways that we can put it to work in our thinking and how we orientate ourselves in making artworks and constructing critical judgments about them. For example, what I meant by getting better at putting this to work, we actually become more adept at using it as a basis for our explanations and our thinking and by invoking other layers of thinking. So, the frames and our concepts and theories of practice become interrelated within it. And we talk about this as high inference thinking in the subject, we talk about this as engaging in more autonomous ways of thinking and the syllabus names that specifically in the rationale, I think in stage six, so what I do with my pre-service teachers in talking about this is to say this is a scaffold for your planning, but it's going to match how students themselves think about art. So, in other words, it becomes a common language and what the students, I'm referring to, our students who are entering the profession as primary teachers mostly, and their anxieties are about. Well, I don't have a deep knowledge of art, I don't have discipline specific expertise, I can't even draw that, what they can do is they can learn to think about art so in these instances I get them to use the conceptual framework to help scaffold research of artists and then we use it as a scaffold for then inventing and working with ideas about how to explain these things that they've researched, what sorts of belief systems are being enacted in some of the literature that they're reading, so how they're framed and then we look also at, how can we adapt some of these practices that these artists or these critics have started to use and turn those into learning activities in the classroom. But what we can help teachers with is a way of understanding how to think about art from a conceptual perspective, which then helps build some confidence about this is not a mystical, you know, unfathomable realm of teaching. It actually has a logical basis to it. And if we apply that, like we would apply it in science and maths and English, we can still work through really interesting questions of art and we can draw on exhibitions, articles in newspapers as content for the students that we're going to work within our classrooms. So, the pre-service teachers, they always are surprised at how easily they can work with this framework as the beginning to understanding how, how to think about art and then maybe how to start teaching it and feel confident about that.

Kathrine

That's good to hear. Thank you so much, Karen, it has been absolutely a pleasure to get to sit and listen to you talk about the conceptual framework and to have you so generously share your expertise in this area and we're very, very grateful. Thank you for sharing with us today and I'm looking forward to working with you further, we've got a project that we're going to release later in the year on critical and creative thinking in visual arts, and I've been lucky enough to have your help on that one. So that's something that's coming up for our listeners to look out for as well.

Karen

And it's been great fun and it's been lovely to talk this through. I love talking about this and I like talking about the research in the area and I'm very happy to say that I have a couple of PhD students working on further work on how the conceptual framework is applied. One of those students is working in the primary school context, and another is looking at how secondary school students activate these concepts in their learning in the visual arts. So that's exciting and heartening to see that some teachers out there really want to investigate their content more deeply through this research. So pleased for anyone to contact me about further opportunities in that area.

Kathrine

Thank you so much, Karen, we really appreciate it. Thank you.

Jackie

This podcast was brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team of Secondary Learners, Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education.

Get involved in the conversation by joining our statewide staff room through the link in the show notes or email our Creative Arts Curriculum Advisor, Cathryn Horvat at creativearts7-12@det.nsw.edu.au. The music for this podcast was composed by Alex Manton and audio production by Jason King.

[end of transcript]

Hear about the highlights and challenges of teaching creative arts in rural and remote NSW, as well as various support programs such as the new Rural Learning Exchange pilot program for visual arts.

Jackie

The following podcast is brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team from Secondary Learners Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education.

As we commence this podcast today, let us acknowledge the traditional custodians of all the lands on which this podcast will be played around New South Wales. Their art, storytelling, music and dance, along with all First Nations People, hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal Australia. Let us acknowledge with honour and respect our elders, past, present and future, especially those Aboriginal people in our presence today who have and still do guide us with their wisdom.

Alex

Hello and welcome to the creative cast podcast series. My name is Alex Papasavvas and I'm a Creative Arts Curriculum Officer with the New South Wales Department of Education. The topic for today's Think Tank episode is creative arts in rural and remote schools and I'll be joined by two creative arts teachers from the central west region of the state. Tasma Crosswell from Ardlethan Central School and Claire Ryan from Molong Central School.

Jackie

We interrupt this podcast for a very special announcement. The Creative Arts Curriculum Team announce our Creative Casting Call. This initiative provides two exciting ways that you and your students can get involved in our podcasts and earn some much needed funds for your creative arts faculty budget.

First, compose our podcast music. Compose some music we could use for the intro and outro for our podcast next term. The best composition will be used in our podcast next term and win your school a $2,000 grant for creative arts.

The second is design next term's promotional tile. Our podcast theme for next term is where to from here. The best tile will be used for our where to from here podcasts next term and also win your school a $2,000 grant for creative arts. Find the full brief in the Creative Arts Statewide Staffroom. Entries for next term close on the last day of term three with the winning composition and tile to be featured and credited in term four’s podcasts. This initiative is only available to New South Wales Department of Education schools 2021.

Alex

Before we get into our discussion today, I'd like to give some context to a couple of the issues and initiatives will be talking about regarding rural and remote education in New South Wales public schools in particular as they relate to creative arts teachers. Country towns in New South Wales are often pretty small with small schools and pretty far from neighbouring towns. So, when we're talking about central schools and small schools, picture and enrolment of 300 students or less. In our K-12 Central schools this enrolment figure includes primary and secondary students and sometimes even preschool. This is obviously a much smaller school population than you'd expect in a metropolitan school or at a school in a larger town or regional centre, which I'll loosely define as an area with a high enough population to require more than one high school.

So, at a small school that might only have one or 200 students enrolled across 7-12, this can present a few issues that affect the school's capacity to offer senior subjects. If you only have 20 students going to Stage 6 classes, some of those classes are going to have to be pretty small, below the threshold some larger schools might use to decide whether or not to run a subject. One solution to this issue is the rural access program which was set up to enable a more diverse offering for senior students in small rural schools. There are a handful of different access programs across the state which are based on geographical networks of schools in neighbouring towns that come together to collaborate on their Stage 6 subject offerings. I've taught in the Wilvandee access program which includes Wilcannia, Ivanhoe and Menindee central schools and also the Lachlan access program which included Condobolin High school and Lake Cargelligo, Tullibigeal and Ungarie Central schools. The way these programs work is that Stage 6 subjects are delivered across the access program rather than through individual schools. Each Stage 6 subject will be taught by a coordinating teacher who is experienced in the subject and is responsible for programming, assessment, and some lesson delivery and supported by cooperating teachers across the network who use the coordinating teachers programming to deliver the course in their own schools. Usually there will be a videoconference component where the coordinating teacher will deliver a few lessons per fortnight to all students in that subject. And then the cooperating teachers support their students at their home schools to engage with the course content. So, it's an effective way to build teacher networks and experience across geographically isolated areas as well as to ensure that students able to engage with subjects like visual arts that might otherwise not have enough enrolments to run. Access programs also ensure that students have the benefit of an experienced specialist teacher, and also to make sure that in situations where teachers might be less experienced or isolated or teaching out of their subject area, that those teachers are able to benefit from the experience of the coordinating teacher.

The rural learning exchange is a new pilot program that operates on a similar model providing a network for schools to tap into with experienced subject coordinators who work collaboratively with local teachers to build a common learning sequence and assessments. Currently, the rural learning exchange is in effect for rural and remote schools to sign up for standard English, standard mathematics, agriculture and biology, but is about to be expanded to include other subjects including visual arts.

My guests today, Tasma and Claire are respectively the Creative Arts facilitator and the Visual Arts Coordinator for the Rural Learning Exchange. Tasma and Claire, thank you so much for joining me today. I'd like to start by asking you both to tell us a little bit about your teaching background and also your schools, as we might have a few listeners that haven't heard of Ardlethan or Molong before or might not even be aware that a lot of country towns in New South Wales are serviced by central schools which are K to 12 learning environments and often really central institutions in the local community. Tasma, I would ask you to start us off.

Tasma

I'm a visual arts teacher at Ardlethan Central School. Ardlethan is out near Griffith Narrandera, Leeton, Wagga. We’re basically an hour from everywhere. I've been teaching here for 34 years. I'm currently the Creative Arts Facilitator for the Rural Learning Exchange.

Alex

Great thanks Tasma. How about you, Claire?

Claire

Look, I'm visual arts teacher at Molong Central School, which is about 30 Km's west of Orange. Molong Central’s a fantastic school of approximately 500 kids, K to 12. Look, ironically, started my teaching career on the remote TIs Thursday Island as a backpacker in 99 when I fell in love with teaching. When we emigrated back to Australia in 2008, I was really excited to obtain a permanent position here at Molong.

Alex

Thanks Tasma and Claire. Now you both mentioned that you're involved in a relatively new initiative called the Rural Learning Exchange, which I understand is about to be expanded to support teachers to deliver creative arts subjects in rural and remote areas. Could you both explain your current role a little more and what the Rural Learning Exchange aims to do.

Tasma

The Rural Learning Exchange offers support for schools and teachers teaching Stage 6. It offers programs, scope and sequences, unit of work, resources, professional learning. My primary role though, is to encourage staff to join the Rural Learning Exchange. That way you can keep informed of events, training, changes within your role and it just forms a prime location for resources. Within my role, I provide art, music, drama and dance teachers with news and items in particular to their subject.

Alex

That sounds great, thanks. How about you Claire? What's your role in the Rural Learning Exchange?

Claire

Alex, my new role is Visual Arts Subject Coordinator for the Rural Learning Exchange. I will be mentoring, coordinating and supporting visual arts teachers in rural and remote schools, I guess wrapping them in a virtual faculty offering collaboration, professional dialogue, up skilling them if and when necessary. And just being there as a sounding board. The aim of the Rural Learning Exchange is that this process of collaboration helps the students to, I'm going to quote one of our leaders on this, “see over the Levee bank and past the silos.” So, I'm super excited to actually get my teeth into this next term and really connect and support the teachers in those rural and remote schools. I guess give back to the profession, to them, their students. However, I must add that this are really is a pilot program. So hopefully Tasma and I will be part of its success into the future.

Alex

All right, thanks Claire. I love that quote about over the levee and beyond the silos. And look, this is a subject that's quite close to my heart. I spent the first few years of my teaching career in relatively remote central schools that were supported by these smaller access program networks where you've got maybe three or four schools coming together and having access to a professional network of other visual art teachers. Early in my career, despite being pretty isolated as often the sole visual arts teacher in a central school, that was really, really helpful for me. So, I'll ask now, what do you both see as some of the opportunities and challenges that are unique to rural and remote teaching.

Claire

Look, you have the opportunity to run your own race, write your own programs, order your own supplies, have the art room exactly how you want to. No one else is going to be in there except you. I've found that to be fantastic. But obviously it's harder to take students to the galleries in Sydney and Canberra. However, I've learned to connect and engage with regional galleries such as Cowra, Bathurst, Orange, Dubbo. They will tailor make experiences for your students and they do have amazing collections and exhibitions. You're also a part of the town. You're the art expert in the town. So, use your knowledge and skill to add to the town. I decided to promote the arts and founded smarts, which was the Spring Molong Arts Festival. We successfully launched this biennale in 2008. However, we're just waiting for COVID to end so we can have our next event.

Alex

Just a quick shout out to some of my favourite regional galleries at Broken Hill, Griffith and here in Albury, MAMA, the Murray Art Museum Albury, a really fantastic resource for visual arts. If you're in a regional area, you probably have a regional gallery, that would be a great spot to check out. Tasma, what do you see is some of the opportunities and challenges in rural and remote teaching?

Tasma

Firstly, you're alone in your faculty. The chances of another art teacher being within 100km radius is slim to none. But I found that exciting. It meant that I could make my own programs, following the department guidelines, involving the interest of our students involved. Be involved in community events, doing up set designs for the local drama club, displays for the community shows and transforming a country hall into a beautiful gala debutante ball. This event was one of my first opportunities to work with students for the community and the community welcomes you not only as a resource, but as someone of interest to extend their artistic needs and thoughts. Community events are valuable involvement as again, suppliers, helpers and experience. They donate so much to the art room. Not only magazines and containers, but I've had loads of hessian materials. One woman emptied her entire craft supplies into the school. So that was just wonderful. So, you receive a lot as well as giving back to the community.

Alex

Yeah. And I think that's such an important feature of working in a small town. You do become such a central part of the community. I'll ask now what advice do you have for visual arts or creative arts teachers in rural and remote settings, especially in some of these smaller, in central schools where as you say, you might be the only visual art teacher, you might be the only visual art teacher within 100ks.

Claire

Look, if you are the only visual arts teacher use the amazing online world to connect with others. The statewide staffroom is a great resource, offers a great dialogue and wonderful resources. Where possible engage in professional learning as this is a great way to network and make supportive friends. I've also found that connecting with the community like Tasma just said is amazing that the wealth of knowledge and skill within it. Once you start asking around it's phenomenal. We regularly get photographers, welders, sculptors into school to support students and myself. I guess, don't be afraid to ask for help and speak to your principal about the possibility of joining the Rural Learning Exchange Visual Arts Faculty.

Alex

Thanks Claire, and I would echo your call for teachers to join us in the Creative Arts Statewide Staff Room where we've got a wealth of resources and experienced teachers just waiting for people to reach out and ask for help which were always very happy to provide. What are your thoughts on teachers managing the situation of being the only art teacher Tasma?

Tasma

Getting involved in the community still is the main thing that you could do. There's always something happening. There's so much that you can become involved with and in return, gaining the resources, you also gain helpers. Teaching knitting to a large class was one of the prerequisites that the primary staff had and we were able to call in lots of parents to help out with that. Also link with other faculties in your school and from them, the other teachers, other faculties, you gain a lot too. They have ideas that you can use in your classroom.

Alex

Thanks to Tasma, and you've just reminded me of some of their really fun times I had taking primary RFF classes as the visual art teacher in central schools. What a great way to engage with a more broad range of students than just the ones that you get through into your visual art classrooms. So, on a more general note, I'll ask, what advice do you have for teachers in practical subjects like VA who are doing virtual teaching either in an access program, distance education or teachers at the moment who are locked down and running their classes online?

Claire

We are lucky we are creative people, so we do tend to think outside the box. Use the technology to grow creativity. Keep lessons structured. Don't overload the students with too much content, chunk information concepts into bite size sections. Use the fantastic virtual tours to take students all over the world. Don't try and be an expert with all the technology at once. Try new collaborative tools steadily as you go along and look after your own wellbeing. Plan your day, your brakes, when you'll start, when you'll stop because it can become very consuming.

Alex

Yeah, I think it's really important to make sure that you do have structure in your own work day as a teacher and definitely make sure to include some breaks in that. What do you think Tasma?

Tasma

Also make use of all the platforms that are available and don't be scared to try and learn new things like Microsoft Teams, Google Classroom, Adobe Connect. There's so much that you can do just like teaching in your room on these platforms to own it, make it yours, set up stages for yourself. Play games like Kahoot and explore PowerPoints. Don't just talk to the pictures, offer Youtube clips, get the students to draw on the works by offering them control, highlight their answers, their descriptions, their evidence and they'll enjoy it just as much as you.

Alex

Some really good ideas there. Thank you. And I’ll just build on that by reminding teachers that if you are looking for resources or ideas, the Creative Arts Curriculum Team have really expanded what's on offer on our website in 2021. So, if you haven't looked at that for a while, we'll put a link in the show notes and definitely encourage you to check out some of the newer resources that we have on offer.

I mentioned earlier that I had previously taught in Wilcannia and I want to highlight one of our recent resource releases that relates to that area. Mapping Memory – Badger Bates is a visual arts resource for Stage 4 which takes a fairly in depth look at Badger Bates’ artwork, Mission Mob Bend Mob, Wilcannia 1950s. As part of the activities in the unit students engage with some of the Aboriginal history of the local area in Wilcannia. The first time I started using this artwork in my classroom was while I was teaching there and I think it's a good example of a way to bring in local content into a teaching unit. The feature artwork, Mission Mob Bend Mob is a stylised, historical map of the local area that highlights some of the key points of interest from the artist's personal and cultural history as a Barkindji man and students in that area resonated with this local content because it was really familiar to them. What I found when I moved to other schools in rural New South Wales is that there are Barkindji students there too and Aboriginal students from other language backgrounds like Wiradjuri students still resonated pretty strongly with this kind of localized content because some of the key themes and art making techniques were also relevant to them. So, do check out our resource offering for visual arts as well as PDM, music, dance and drama.

I'll also mention that the digital learning selector on the Department of Education website has a lot of ideas and scaffolds for activities as well as a list of digital learning applications and programs that you might not have heard of or used before. So definitely check that out too if you're needing something a little bit more in your virtual classroom.

Finally, the Creative Arts Statewide Staff Room provides a really great opportunity for New South Wales Department of Education teachers to connect with each other and with our curriculum officers and advisers. It's a place to exchange ideas and to get subject specific support. We’ll put a sign-up link in the show notes and I'll also mention one of our current initiatives called Creative Arts Connect, which we hold a couple of times a term. It's an informal open meeting for teachers to join and get advice or support from our officers and advisers as well as other teachers.

So, my last question to my guests, what would you say to teachers considering a move to a rural or remote school, Claire?

Claire

Look, as I said earlier, I arrived in Australia in 2008 and quickly learned about the list and how I would be at the bottom of that list and would be teaching casual for the next 20 years in the on the coast. I remember panicking with two very small children thinking you know I really should have researched the whole education employment process in Australia and also thinking that I didn't want to necessarily wait on the coast for 20 years for someone to retire. The job at Molong came up and I applied for a merit selection and was successful and the community took my family and I in and have given us an amazing place to not only raise our children, but provided me within a fantastic career and we just gained lifelong friendships. Real remote communities are amazing places. I've certainly grown as a teacher, have been given opportunities across the whole school, which I may not have had in a larger school in the metropolitan area. Things like actually being asked to lead other teachers when you're relatively new, formative assessment or having to step out of your comfort zone and teach areas that you're not that confident in, which really, really does make you consider how your teaching and the pedagogy of teaching. I remember when I first arrived, I had to teach a sewing class and I'd never used a sewing machine in my entire life. So luckily there was an amazing LSO who stepped in and I said, look Mrs Dougmore will now teach and I will just learn to sew, being really honest with the kids. It's been a journey, definitely a journey for myself, my family and I would definitely encourage anyone to take up a role in a rural or remote school. It really is a fantastic opportunity.

Alex

Yes. And I think a lot of teachers in smaller schools have had that experience of being asked to step out of their comfort zone and maybe cover classes or even teach a whole class outside of their subject area. Myself, I've had to go at a bit of science, a bit of a tech, but I do think that it really makes you reflect on your teaching practice and consider, you know? Well, I felt like I got better very quickly in my first couple of years in rural remote schools and a lot of that was because I was being forced to step out of my comfort zone, not just as a visual art teacher, but also as a fresh graduate. Suddenly, hundreds of kilometres from the place I consider home. Tasma, keen for your thoughts on this one.

Tasma

You will learn a lot more in a rural school than a huge faculty school. You'll be given so many opportunities on a day to day basis to step outside your visual arts room and become involved in the larger part of the school by writing the school magazine, putting it together, get to do those sort of things. Heading the wellbeing team. I was on the wellbeing team as the girls supervisor for 30 years and you get to explore a whole different field with the students doing that. Leading reviews, being an acting or becoming an actual head teacher role very quickly in the rural schools. I even got to be acting principal for a day, which was an experience and a half. So many promotion positions that call for experience now and you'll have it within your first few years because a rural school where staff are limited in number, someone has to step up and more often than not, it's you

Alex

I would just like to echo some of that and say that for my own part, starting to step into student welfare roles was really rewarding for my part.

I would say just go for it. Once you realize that there's life beyond Sydney, you may never want to go back. And if you've been in some very small towns and moved to a larger regional centre like Albury can feel a lot like going back to the city.

Thank you so much Tasma and Claire for sharing your knowledge and experience today. The advice you've given has just been absolutely wonderful and so valuable. I'm sure many creative arts teachers will learn a lot from hearing your advice. Thanks again.

Jackie

This podcast was brought to you by the Creative Arts Curriculum Team of Secondary Learners, Educational Standards Directorate of the New South Wales Department of Education. Get involved in the conversation by joining our statewide staff room through the link in the show notes or email our Creative Arts Curriculum Advisor, Cathryn Horvat at creativearts7-12@det.nsw.edu.au. The music for this podcast was composed by Alex Manton and audio production by Jason King.

[end of transcript]

Category:

  • Teaching and learning

Topics:

  • Arts
  • Curriculum development
  • Curriculum organisation

Business Unit:

  • Teaching, Learning and Student Wellbeing
Return to top of page Back to top