Welcome to you all here at the Institute of Applied Technology Construction at Kingswood and our online guests to our 2024 Launch Your Career in Surveying and Spatial Information Services webinar. Hosted by the Department of Education, TAFE New South Wales, and with the support of the Institution of Surveyors New South Wales, we are excited to have you here, whether in person or online.
Today's session will provide you with the tools and information you need to explore or start a career in Surveying and Spatial Information Services. Whether you're considering a career option or seeking new opportunities, this field is full of exciting possibilities. You'll hear today from experts, success stories, and get practical tips to guide you to your next steps. Get ready to engage and discover an exciting future in this field.
Today, we're gonna hear a message from the Surveyor General of Australia, Department of Education, TAFE New South Wales, and a range of panelists in the Surveying and Spatial Information industry. After this, we'll have our visiting students go down and attend group activities. For our online participants will have a link to a Q&A and a survey at the end of the webinar.
TAFE New South Wales like to pay their respects to the traditional owners on the land, which we meet today across the state and the people of the Darug nation and at which we are on today and pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging and people of all nations.
I am pleased to introduce Narelle Underwood Australia's first Surveyor General appointed at just 32, she became the youngest person to hold the position in New South Wales in over 200 years.
As the 25th surveyor general since 1787, Narelle leads with excellence serving as the President of the Board of Surveyors and Spatial Information, which is also known as BOSSI. The chair of the Geospatial Name Boundaries of New South Wales, an electrical boundary commissioner. Her leadership plays a pivotal role in shaping the urban planning, community services, and infrastructure while maintaining high Surveying standards nationwide.
Let's now hear Narelle’s message.
Hello, everyone. Narelle Underwood, Surveyor General of New South Wales. So my background is Surveying in Geospatial Information and today, I'm gonna talk to you a little bit about my journey. So what attracted me to Surveying? So like so many other people that I speak to into Surveying, I actually fell into it.
When I finished high school, I knew I wanted to work in the built environment and so I started undertaking a civil engineering degree.
At the beginning of my second year at university, I actually got a part-time job with a surveyor and absolutely fell in love with it and haven't looked back since. So I transferred degrees and I now have a Bachelor of Engineering in Surveying and Special Information Systems. And what attracted me to the industry was being able to influence the built environment, the communities, and the place. For me, it's all about people and place. And so that's what I've really enjoyed about it and that's why I've continued to stay into it.
So what is Surveying? Surveying is the measurement, analysis, management, storage, display, and mapping of our surrounding natural and built environment using specialised
technology and equipment. It encompasses professionals in the traditional specialised areas of cadastral Surveying, engineering and mining Surveying, cartography, computer graphics, photogrammetry, geodesy, and land development.
Technology has changed the way surveyors work. We're no longer frontiers out, traipsing through unknown lands in the bush. GPS makes things a lot easier, but there are new areas that are emerging. If you think about the way technology is advancing, these are all opportunities to increase the use of geoSpatial Information to help inform decisions in
the development of the future. So we use things like drones and GPS, we capture
through laser scanning, mobile laser scanning to build that data and to create those 3D models. And that's one of the reasons why STEM is so important. Unfortunately there's a skill shortage. And then we don't have enough surveyors, not just in New South Wales or Australia, but internationally.
And so we've looked at why this happened and part of that is because people have preconceived ideas about what a surveyor is and does. And those ideas don't actually
stack up in today's society. So when we start to think about how surveyors are more than
just a STEM-based career, we start to understand why we need to improve the diversity
of our profession. And that's one of the key areas that I'm really passionate about. As I've mentioned, I'm really passionate about community and place and that is because we can use the science to help us to understand how we can interact with data, how we can help influence the direction that the community needs to head.
The types of work, depending on the career and the trajectory that you wanna follow, are really varied when it comes to Surveying. Most people have seen people standing on the side of the road behind a tripod working on construction site and that is one aspect that about Surveying but is so much bigger than that. So it could be dealing with property boundaries or it could be making sure that a bridge meets in the middle, tunnels meet in the middle.
That famous scene where you see where the politicians are all standing there and those tunnel machines break through, that's because surveyors have been working to make sure those tunnels are gonna meet within millimeters at either end.
Nobody wants a photo op when you know that doesn't actually happen. Or it could be maybe you don't want to work outside all the time, maybe you wanna work in the office. And that's a great option as well because there are people who work in a whole range of things relating to geospatial data.
That little blue dot on your phone, GPS is a really key criteria for what we work with one of our key tools, maybe you like working with drones. Capturing that data and then building 3D models that can be used by architects and designers or engineers to deliver products for the clients. So some of the other areas also include mining, and that's above ground and underground. Or hydrographic Surveying, mapping the bottom of the ocean. It's actually quite strange, but we've only mapped a really small percentage of our oceans out there. And so there's many depths of opportunities for exploration. It's kind of like the next frontier for exploration if you think about it.
Thank you, Narelle. Now we have a short video on Surveying and Spatial Information services. See how this field shapes our world through urban planning, infrastructure, and
environmental management. Discover the technologies and innovations that make
Surveying an exciting career.
This short video will give you insight into how surveyors and Spatial Information professionals impact our daily lives. Let's explore the opportunity and importance of this field together. - Now we're going to have our industry experts for a panel discussion that would be moderated by Rachel Greenwood.
Rachel is the CEO of the Institution of Surveyors New South Wales, largest organisation
professional Surveying in New South Wales. With over 130 years of history, the Institute of Surveyors New South Wales supports the future surveyors through events, webinars, learning opportunities.
Rachel is passionate about empowering the next generation of surveyors. Whether you're curious or ready to begin, Institution of Surveyors New South Wales is here to guide you.
Our first panelist is Luke Skelton, a registered survey and a project manager with 30 years experience. Luke specialise in subdivision titling, project management, and business development.
We also have Caitlin Williams a graduate surveyor from Beveridge Williams. She has completed her degree in 2022. She focuses on residential and large subdivision projects and is active in the Institution of Surveyors New South Wales Emerging
Surveyors Committee.
We also have Michael Baker with seven plus years experience in the Surveying industry. Michael is finishing his bachelor's degree and aims to become a registered surveyor. His work spans from diverse projects including the Sydney Art Gallery and residential housing and developments. We're also supposed to have with us today, Roshni, but she's unwell today. So late in the session, we'll have Q&A which will be facilitated by Amy Greenshields from the Department of Education.
Over to you, Rachel. Thank you, John. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. We've got a couple of questions for our panelists that we'll go through to hopefully give you a bit of insight as to what Surveying and Spatial Information is all about in the real world. So to kick us off, I have a question for you all about your journey into the world of Surveying and Spatial Information.
Can you tell me how you got into Surveying and if there was a moment that particularly sparked your interest in Surveying? If I can start with you, Caitlin. - Thank you. All right. So like I said in the video, so in year 10, we were asked to do work experience. I had no idea what I wanted to do, but knew that I just wanted to work with numbers.
My Careers Adviser said, go be an accountant. I didn't wanna do that. So we have family friends that worked at our local Surveying firm. And I went there for the week and just fell in love with it. So the mix of being indoors and outdoors, doing something different every day is what sparked my interest and I've stuck with it. Yeah, love that. Thank you.
Michael, what about you? Well when I was a wee lad, went out with my dad and we took some measurements. He was helping build a pool and kind of from that point onwards, it sparked. I was like, "I don't know what I wanna do." You know? I'm mean, I'm in high school, I don't know what's going on to be honest. And then I think it was in year nine, I got some work experience at a Surveying firm. And then that's kind of from there onwards, got a job straight out of high school. Beauty, happy days. Yeah, that was me. Amazing. Yeah.
What about you, Luke? So similar to Caitlin, I had no idea what I wanted to do in year 12. My work experience actually was in the military for a week, which I hated. And my stepfather had been in military, so he was really pushing me to go down to ADFA. But I wasn't keen on that. That made me realise that. So it was a good experience actually doing work experience. And the other week I was doing physiotherapy, which also painted a very different picture that I had in my head. So it was a friend of mine who told me in year 12 when I had no idea about Surveying that, like you said, Caitlin, that you work outside a little bit inside a little bit. And he knew someone who ran a survey practice. So I went off and did work experience and thought, this is really cool. Get to play with fun things and go out in four wheel drives. And I grew up in Newcastle, so I got to go out to remote places in the Hunter Valley and yeah, that's sort of what got me in. - Yeah, amazing. A similarity that I've just pulled is that you've all done work experience. Interesting. So let's explore that.
To give everyone an idea of what Surveying and Spatial Information is all about, let's pretend that you're gonna explain it to an alien. So Michael, can you give us a bit of a description of what Surveying and Spatial Information means to you. To an alien? So, assuming they know English, I would pretty much say that you get, if you're looking at a plan, a 2D plan, let's just say it's of the layout, like a floor plan of, let's just say even this building, you'd be able to go out in the real world and set out where this building is supposed to be in the world. So you are seeing something, some arbitrary thing and you're actually making it to be out in the real world. So it's very, you know, like you can see what is going on, like it's not just, oh, behind a screen. So yeah, it's very, very practical in that regard. - Amazing, thank you. And it's that transition to 2D to 3D to real world buildings, roads, isn't it?
Fantastic. Caitlin, if I can ask you to throw your memory back to your high school days, was there any particular subjects that you enjoyed that you see a particular connection with the subjects and what you're doing today in your work? Yup. So I thoroughly enjoyed maths,
so I did extension one maths, but that is not a requirement for Surveying. So just having a basic standing of trigonometry, just basic measurements 'cause a lot of our stuff we do these days is using technology which does a lot of the maths for you rather than back in the
olden days where you had to know exactly what the measurement was with your chain and adding everything in your head, which is just way too much now. So just having a basic understanding of maths really helps me on a daily basis with all our measurements.
I also enjoy PDHPE, so being outdoors, there's also technology so you get to indoors so there's a real mix of subjects that are really good for Surveying. Yeah, I love that. I might just add something. Yeah, go for it. So one of the courses I did, I think it was in year nine, was a computer aided design course. And originally, it was just building a toy car just in some computer software. But then eventually, one of the last things we did was we had to build the house we lived in. So we pretty much just got a tape measure, went around the house, taped it out, wrote it on a little plan, and then drew it in the software. And then in the end
project, you had your house.
My one wasn't very good, but that's for other reasons. But yeah, that's pretty much what we do day in, day out. Like we get measurements of real world thing and then we put it into computer software, yeah, Yeah, amazing. And what about your relationship to maths? Are would you say you're a mathematician? Uh, maybe not. Maybe not. But math is not necessarily key to enter into the world of Surveying or Spatial Information? And also like, it's not like, oh, you know, apples, oranges, you know, like it's not some arbitrary thing. You are literally, you know, whatever the maths you're doing is gonna be something you'll be able to see like it'll be tangible. So that made it a lot more interesting for me. Yeah. Great, thank you.
Luke, I'm gonna throw this one to you. I know that Surveying and Spatial Information has taken you to some pretty cool places. Yes. So can you tell us about how you got involved in Formula One racing as a surveyor? So I think first of all, I was working in London, so I went over to London to work to get experience internationally and also to see a bit of the world I hadn't traveled before. So I had a month in Indonesia surfing and then I made my way to London. And I was working at the time when I got approached by Formula One on a hospital
in East London in Whitechapel for anyone who knows London. And I got a call from a recruiter and they said, "Do you have these skills?" Which was to do with Surveying obviously. And I obviously was very interested 'cause at the time, I was doing 10-hour days, traveling probably an hour each way on the tube. And also working on Saturdays sort of half a day. So I was very excited at the thought of traveling around the world. And yeah, I was interviewed and I was working for Formula One management, which was Bernie Ecclestone's company, which they did the TV production for Formula One. So I was GPS-ing all the circuits and creating plans as well as being the liaison for the team 'cause we had about 100 people at each race. So I was the liaison as in the conduit. So I would go to the circuit rather than 100 people go to the circuit and ask for certain things, building materials or platforms, they came to me and I was a conduit. So yeah, got to cover around the world. Amazing. And go to lots of cool places. And as glamorous as it probably seems, it wasn't obviously always glamorous. We spent two weeks at a race quite often up at 5 AM going to the circuit, working hard, not allowed to talk to drivers unless it was in your direct reporting structure. So yeah, it's definitely not the glitz and glamour that you might think it is on TV. But yeah, look it came with benefits and you know, we had a lot of fun with a group of us in our team, we'd run around the circuit as just a fun thing to do every day for that two weeks.
We'd do go-kart racing. At the end of the season in Brazil, we went off and traveled around Brazil, Uruguay, that was the last race. So you could travel as long as you want and they paid for your flight back. They gave you money when you're away. So you could go out of an
evening and have a bit of dinner, but again, you couldn't go out too late because you'd have to be up about 5 AM the next day. So you definitely couldn't party too much. But yeah, look, it was a great experience. Yeah, amazing. That's so cool. And what sort of Surveying work did you do as part of F1 racing? What did you do? What was your work aside from being the middleman?
Yeah. How was that relate? So the main thing I had to do was create plans similar to what Michael said about drawing a floor plan of a house. I had to do floor plans of the circuits. Often, they'd put in a new Chicane, so we'd have to get track left, track right, and then we'd create a center line out of that. We gave that to the FIA who's the governing body. They then the teams determined their fuel loadings and then we had to set out the broadcast center, which is where it's broadcast from obviously to make sure that everything fit properly. So we had to use the software that Michael was talking about to actually create the plans and give those to each of the individual teams for their garage spaces.
Look, the fun things were, I had a race in Valencia before. Valencia actually became a race, a GP2 race. And they gave me a helicopter and I could go up and take photos and basically plan for the Valencia Street circuit. Had motorbikes and cool toys to run around in. And so instead of having to walk around the track and take a shot every five, ten meters, I could have a either a car or a motorbike and you could cruise around and do it much quicker obviously. So yeah, look, there was lots of cool tools.
The downside was that I wasn't paid very well. I sort of paid half what I was earning as a contract surveyor working on a construction site and that's how they kept you there. They didn't pay you very well, but it came with lots of benefits. So yeah, eventually as whilst
it was amazing, I went back to construction sites and those long days and for sort of double the money. Yeah, that's a tough one to weigh up, isn't it? It was fun toys, less money in the bank but great experiences.
Absolutely. Yeah. Yup. So with the recent Olympics we just had, did anyone see any of the surveyors on the Olympic tracks? Because surveyors are out at the Olympics measuring the actual distances. That's how they get their distances. When you're dealing with such accuracy, 'cause world records are broken, you need accurate equipment which surveyors have. So we go to the Olympics and measure the measurements for them to make sure it is that accurate for their world records. So that's just something interesting that we also do that not many people think of. Yeah, that's a great little fun fact, isn't it? Yeah, please do.
I'll just add to that and look, probably, I can’t speak for all of us, but we all go to amazing locations and just to rattle a few that I had in Sydney in the short time I was in Sydney before I went to London. I spent 14 years in London, so quite a long time and I've been back five years. But projects that I've worked on pre sort of scanning some of the things that you
would've seen the video before.
I did a job on the opera house where I got to go up on top of the shelves and do be doing measurements. And had some really sort of fun experiences like that. At Taronga Zoo, we did a detailed survey so they were extending Taronga Zoo. And I'm sure we've all got sort of similar case studies either in Sydney or interstate or internationally where you get to go to some really cool locations. - Yeah, I mean, Zoo, F1 Olympic tracks, incredible.
Michael, do you have any cool work stories, destinations, roles, places that you've worked? Well, I think I was... I'd say when I was working in Foster, it's not like the most amazing place, but oh, man, you finish work at like 3:30 or four, it's just like a holiday. Like you're just chilling out, nice location, kick back, wasn't very good at surfing but you know, you give it a crack, you stack it, life goes on. And yeah, that was one of the good places I think.
I think my more, the thing I was I guess more proud of was when I was working on the Sydney Art Gallery, a good friend of mine and colleague and me were just kind of the two surveyors on that site and you know, that's just something I can go back to, you know, pretty much for the rest of my days, something that's just in the world that I helped out with and that's just, yeah, so yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Great workplaces, I mean, work-life balance sounds like it's on point as well, which is very cool. So I mean you've all spoken about some really high-end job sites that you've worked on. So if we can talk about the technology and the accuracy maybe in particular to the F1 racing, it all has to be absolute pinpoint accuracy, right? So knowing that Surveying has got some pretty cutting edge technologies, can you give us an idea of what technology you would use and what it does? What does it mean?
Maybe Luke, if you can kick us off for that one Look in Formula One, to be honest, whilst it's very cutting edge, probably everything they have on cars, the actual I guess pickup of
the circuit with using GPS, it doesn't have to be super accurate. Like millimeter accurate. GPS you're probably only talking sort of 20, 30 mil per height and probably similar for position. So there's probably other applications where you need to be a lot more precise,
like monitoring comes to mind and different things. But in that case, it was literally just GPS which you can, yeah, as I say, you can pick up anything and then a total station, which is probably a little bit more accurate than that. But look, probably Caitlin and Michael can talk better to some of the sort of newer applications with drones, LiDAR, photogrammetry. So yeah, I'm gonna throw over to you. – Great. Yeah, Michael have you got some some fancy tech that you work with on the regular. Maybe not on the regular. No? But I do know of there are many photogrammetry things where pretty much you have a drone, let's just say in a mine, goes around, takes some photos.
Using those photos, it can map out, you know, the position in the world and then let's just say they're doing some blast minds, you know, chucking the dynamite, you know, they don't have to do that, but anyway. And then you can compare what it was to what it is now and then that's just like, you know, one of the things you do in Surveying. I think the more accurate surveys I've had to complete was relating to structural steel. So like let's just say, you've got these walls, you just have this beam through there and there'd be these little tiny bolts at the edge of these beams and you have to make sure that it's within like a few millimeters. But if it's not, you know, the people putting on the structural steel, probably just get the hammer out. But we don't talk about that. But yeah, that's kind of yeah, what I would've experienced, yeah. - Awesome. And Caitlin, have you had much experience with drones or anything like that? I personally haven't had the opportunity yet. Not yet?
We are looking into getting a drone but also a sonar map because they can go underwater
and take measurements. So recently, we've been doing a lot of surveys on rivers, especially after the floods we had in our area and doing monitoring of those to see where seabeds are at, where the levels are for the water. So looking forward to using one of them. Yeah, that's very cool. I'll just add to that then. So just sort of off the back of what Michael said there.
One of the projects I currently have is in the Hunter Valley where it's been shut down. So it's been remediated at the moment, but I'm doing the lease for it where we're toning it into a solar farm pump hydro, as well as biodiversity project. Our company sort of specialise in renewables, so we work on a lot of solar farms and pump hydro and the, and the like, and we use the UAV so the drones, unmanned aerial vehicles to capture either photogrammetry or LiDAR. And as Michael touched on there, you pick up the contours of the Earth and you can measure things from that. So yeah, working on some really cool projects around Australia, - That's phenomenal. The fact that that's even possible is incredible. It blows my mind at least. Amazing. So, we'll jump to something a little bit more maybe lighthearted if you will, some myth busters. So can you tell us what some common misconceptions are about Surveying and Spatial Information?
Well, maybe you guys have seen the fluoro man in a fluoro shirt with a speed camera on the road that is in fact not a speed camera. However, that is not the only thing we do. Like as you might have seen in the video, or they might have made some comments on, you know, we can be on boats mapping out, you know, waterways that are safer for boats, you
know, building some jetties for boats as well, whether it be mining like we've touched on as well. Where you just kind of monitoring and getting the general scope scope of the land. You know, there's also a lot of computer work if you want it. So you're not always just gonna be out on the field. Yeah. So there is that kind of diversity. It's not always gonna be out on the field, it's not always gonna be in the office. And depending on your skillset, you can probably just say what you want, especially when you start becoming more of an asset. And there's also like, you know, the drones as well, like getting that aerial photography, getting the LiDAR sensors going down and yeah, there's a whole bunch. We're not just the speed camera people, which you have to slam on the brakes on if you're speeding, but anyway, yeah. - That's a very good one.
I feel like everyone in the room and online will be able to go, you know when you're driving down the road and you see someone on the side of the road, hi-vis, tripod, that's not a speed
camera, that's a surveyor. So everyone keep that in mind.
Caitlin, what's your misconception for Surveying? So with the advances in technology, we are getting some really fancy stuff and even some robots so that we can remote control them. AI, obviously massive. But lots of people think that's going to take over our jobs as surveyors, it will not. There always needs to be someone to analyse the data, understand what it's doing, be able to tell the technology what it needs to do. So I think it's really important to know that even with all these advances in technology, you're not going to lose
your job because of it.
Surveyors are really important in all different aspects, so. Yeah, that's super key isn't it? Luke. Probably just off the back of that as well, there's a shortage of surveyors as Narelle said in the earlier video. So we're in high demand. I think there's almost 100$ employment, pays well, there's lots of opportunity. So maybe that's a misconception of potentially what, you know, the demand of surveyors and maybe pay opportunities. But yeah, my experience has been that surveyors are paid well. There's lots of opportunity and like you said, it's a good work-life balance. Yeah, absolutely. And just taking onto the back of yours.
As a graduate surveyor you can be looking at a salary of about 90 grand straight out of uni. Where there's also certificate opportunities, there's diplomas as well. And yeah, as you said, there's I think it's a 97% employment rate straight out of uni. So Surveying, Spatial Information, you're almost guaranteed employment and a great salary. So yeah, keep that one in mind. And it goes up a lot more from 90K And a lot more. Yes, indeed. So Caitlin, if I can ask you the next question.
Surveying seems to be a profession that has a huge range of skills. In your experience, what's the most important skills needed in your role and why does it matter so much? So the first thing that comes to mind for me is problem solving. That's a massive thing surveyors need to be able to do because looking at the computer, say an aerial image, that's not exactly how it's going to look on site. There's always different challenges when you go out to site thinking, "Yup, this one's gonna be an easy job. Looks nice and flat on the
computer, it's a piece of cake." And then you go out there and it's massive slope. Trees everywhere that you've gotta navigate around. So your problem solving is a massive skill that you need to have as a surveyor. And again, just good use of technology, basic understanding of maths, really important skills to have. Yeah, I love that. Michael. So I predominantly worked on construction and civil kinda engineering projects. And another skill which I think is really good is just people skills.
You know, talking to clients, getting a good rapport with them. So yeah, who knows? You know, maybe you'll be invited to the barbecue. It's always a privilege. Get invited to those. And also just, you know, being easier to work with. 'Cause you know, if you're easy to work with, more people are inclined to just give you more in terms of knowledge or whatever and you might learn something new, so yeah. Love that. And so adding on to that, as a surveyor, you are the middleman between a lot of different trades. So you'll work with architects, engineers, carpenters, plumbers, concreters, all different sorts of trades. So having those communication skills is really important because you will work with lots of different people and you need to know what is essential for their job. So making it easier for everyone. But yeah, just being able to communicate that.
Just to clarify that, that's predominantly in like engineering stuff. So you can definitely
be a hermit if you want. And like work in an office exclusively and do all the background stuff. So there is definitely that kind of diversity and skills that you need. Yeah, love that. So I'm hearing problem solving, communication, people skills, some knowledge of maths, but certainly not extension math. So that's fantastic. That's awesome. Well thank you very much
everyone for your input, your insights, and sharing your experiences with everyone here today. I'll hand over to John. Thank you. Thank you, Rachel and our fabulous panelists,
Luke, Michael, and Caitlin.
Now we're gonna have Clint from the Department of Education. Clint is a skilled VET educator with experience in teaching construction and industrial technology. He's also been a Careers Adviser and was named New South Wales Training Awards VET Teacher Trainer of the year for 2022. Currently, Clint is a VET curriculum project officer overseeing programs in construction, manufacturing, primary industries for the Department of Education New South Wales. So over to you, Clint. Thanks, John and welcome, everyone.
It's great to see everyone live here from schools and also online. I'm just gonna have a quick chat to you about the different ways that you can access Surveyingopportunities while you're at school. And the first one I wanted to touch on before I get into the three specific ones is to talk about work experience, which our panelists were discussing. As a careers adviser, I always used to say to my students that it's a really, really important, one of the most important parts of school I believe, is to go out and try work experience. And even if you go out to do a Surveying work experience and you don't enjoy it, that's a great outcome as well.
The reason being is that you understand what it's about and if it's not for you, it's not for you. But it's really important that you go out and try it, okay? So make sure you have a chat to your careers adviser about possibly taking up one of those opportunities. 'Cause as our panelists mentioned, it's the way that they found their pathway into the industry.
The three specific things that you can do at school to do with Surveying, the first one is VET in schools. And so, during your schooling, you can study a VET qualification. So at school, you may see some students doing things like hospitality or construction or furniture making. Okay, these are subjects that you gain a qualification with while you're at school. In particular, in our Department of Ed schools, the subjects that focus that give you an opportunity to have a look at Surveying are things like construction. And so that's what I taught at school. So there's some Surveying information in construction. And also in primary industries with which is our agriculture-based vet subject. And next year, we'll
be actually introducing some drone units of competency into the primary industries course. So that'll be exciting. So if your school delivers primary industries at school, that's a way that you can upskill in Surveying.
The second thing that students can do is a thing that we call externally delivered VET or EVET. And it's where we have an external RTO that offers you the opportunity to study things to do with Surveying. Now again, it's really important that you check in with your careers adviser 'cause they'll be able to give you more information on that. But some of the subjects that you can study through EVET are on the next slide. So you can do things like
aviation resource infrastructure and also again our construction. And then the third way that you can access some Surveying opportunities is a thing called a school-based
apprenticeship or traineeship. Now this is probably the best way to access specific Surveying opportunities while you're at school. So an SBAT is basically, you can choose it as a subject at school. Okay?
You go out usually for one day a week to work in the Surveying industry with an employer and you get paid for that, which is pretty cool. So some people actually use the SBAT instead of having an after school job. So an afternoon job, you actually get paid to do your SBAT. You gain a qualification as well. So you would gain a certificate three in Surveying and Spatial Information, which is really important. So if you are looking at going into university, universities will look at that certificate three qualification that you've gained and that'll actually help you gain entry into uni. But a lot of the time, the employer that hosts you for the SBAT will actually continue to employ you after school. And you've made a head start by completing a certificate three in Surveying. So then your next cert would be a cert four and a diploma and you're already halfway there, okay?
While you're at school. So it's a really important thing. And as a careers adviser, I used to really, really try to encourage students if they're interested in a particular area to undertake an SBAT. It is a school subject so it counts towards the subjects that you have to choose in your year 11 and 12.
As mentioned, it is a certificate three in Surveying and Spatial Information. And again, your careers adviser would be the best person to have a chat to if you're interested in gaining an SBAT. One of the hardest things with an SBAT is actually getting the employer. So if you can get some interest from an employer about hosting you as a one day a week employee, then the rest of the SBAT process is pretty easy to undertake.
There's a lot of support and a lot of people that will help you actually undertake that. And then the last slide is a thing called industry-based learning. And so it's just a tack onto the SBAT. So you can actually do two subjects related to Surveying and the industry based learning is basically a journal entries about what you've been doing on work. So it essentially takes up two subjects that you have to do in year 11 and 12, which allows, you know, a bit of freedom in the other subjects that you can choose. And really beneficial for rural and remote students where they don't have a whole lot of selection, you know, of
courses and subjects they can do.
They can always choose an SBAT and then they have less to choose for the other school subjects. So if you would like to have a chat to me later, feel free. But as I said, careers
advisors the best person to go and chat to about any of the pathways into Surveying. Thanks, John. Thank you, Clint. Appreciate that.
Okay, so now we're gonna have a presentation from Josh Potter from TAFE New South Wales. Josh has over 20 years of experience in the Surveying and spatial industry working
on diverse projects ranging from rural subdivisions to major infrastructure in Sydney. For the past three years, he has been a spatial and information Surveying
teacher at TAFE New South Wales mentoring students and preparing them for a career in the industry.
Josh is also passionate about promoting industry through school-based programs and career days. So over to Josh. Thanks, John. and it's great to see so many of you here today. If we just go to the next slide, thanks. So I'm not gonna spend too much time here, I just wanna reiterate what all the panelists and everyone else has said to this point. Great career, great variety. That's its biggest selling point so I can't recommend it enough. Great opportunities to travel either around Australia or around the world and work in a lot of diverse locations.
Next slide, thanks. Similarly with GIS, those with a more analytical mind, it's more of a desktop type job but there's opportunities in that area as well. Next one, thanks. Okay. So as you can see there, TAFE's been delivering Surveying qualifications for over 50 years. It's always important to offer different qualification levels and pathways. So this is what I wanna talk about primarily. So we've got a that CPP 30221. That's a certificate three in Surveying and Spatial Information services. So anyone who's sort of finishing school, that would be your starting point.
It's generally for school leavers or career changes. So it's generally people who aren't yet in the industry or people trying to crack into the industry. So anyone in here who's considering that after they finish school, that would be your starting point. And then you've got that next one, certificate four in Surveying is kind of the bridge to diploma. It's sort of takes everything you've learned in cert three and kinda adds to it. And then the diploma, you can see there, there's diploma in spatial or diploma in Surveying. That carries quite a lot of weight because there's a lot of job sites, particularly in Sydney but anywhere, where you
actually need a diploma to get onto the site. So we always like to see anyone who starts a cert three go all the way through to the end because that diploma's really, really important and really handy to have. And then there's other programs like Clint mentioned, the SBAT program where you can study while still being at school and so on. And you'll see on the bottom line there we've got delivery from Albury, Yallah, which is down near Wollongong, Ultimo, and Newcastle. So if you leave anywhere between north of Newcastle down to the south coast of New South Wales, you're probably covered.
If you end up anyone who ends up living somewhere outside of those areas, the Albury campus actually caters for, it's actually Thurgoona, which is near Albury. Caters for anyone who doesn't have access to one of those other areas. So you could live in Broken Hill, Taree, anywhere like that. You can still study online and then go down to Albury and do camps. So we basically cover the whole state.
Next slide, thanks. Okay, a few more notes here. So we assess learners before commencing, we run what's called, Are You Ready? testing to see if we can identify any LLN. Anyone who requires LLN assistance., we have trained teachers and onsite support disability consultants that can help anyone who needs it.
You'll see their modes of delivery, face-to-face, online connected. Newcastle, Wollongong, and Sydney, primarily face-to-face but we also have blended where we may offer some online, but the Thurgoona campus I mentioned earlier is almost all online. So really if you prefer face-to-face, you can do that.
If you prefer online, you can do that also. And you can see there, yeah, we help and assist with effective transitioning between qualifications. And RPL if you haven't heard of that before, means anyone who wants to get into TAFE and is already in industry with quite a lot of experience, you may be able to get some credits for work you've already done. So next slide, thanks. Okay.
We're always looking to draw new teachers from industry. That's very important for us. We always try to get people with a lot of experience. The role of a TAFE teacher is essentially to impart and hand on all knowledge they have to the surveyors of the future essentially. So we always try to get, you know, really experienced people to help with that. Mentoring support of course, is all part of teaching. And like I said earlier, we cater for school leavers and those looking for career change. And we have a lot of up-to-date equipment and software at our campuses. So if we just go to the next slide and have a look at some of those things.
You can see there, that's our field work room. There's quite a lot going on there. This is down in Wollongong or Yallah. So Yallah's a southern suburb of Wollongong for those who don't know where that is. So you can see we've got a whole range of things there from... So those speed cameras that were mentioned earlier, that's the yellow boxes there. The total stations, that's a surveyor's best friend. We've got about 20 of those. And digital levels, JNSS units, all sorts of different things. So, and you can see there some of the brands, Trimble Vs Leica, anyone who gets into Surveying will hear of those two a lot. They're kind of the big two.
You can see Topcon, DJI, and different you know, types of software. If we just go to the next slide two, thank you. That's a typical data processing room, I suppose you can call it, where we do all our calculations, data processing, and plan creation or drafting. If you've heard drafting, it's all about turning data into plans essentially. So we have a lot of up-to-date
software and equipment. So anything that's in industry, we'll typically have that with us as well. So just the next one, thank you. And that's the field work room at yellow. You can see it's almost the size of a basketball stadium. It's pretty cool. So we typically do a lot of pre-planning for site surveys in that room.
You know, setting up equipment, so on. And then we sort of venture outside and start doing surveys outside. So we'll just go to the next one, thank you. Okay, so further pathways. So you know I'm from TAFE and you know, love people coming to TAFE. If you wanna continue on after that, there is university options there. So UNSW at the top there does a Bachelor of
Engineering in Surveying. University of Newcastle, Bachelor of Surveying and Bachelor of Engineering. And USQ there, University of Southern Queensland, they offer online options as well similar to our Albury TAFE campus.
If you can't sort of attend any of those universities face-to-face. And our diploma certificate
gives you credits to lighten the workload of your university study. So if you come to TAFE first and then go to university, you can get credit for some of the things you've already done.
Next one, thanks. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much, Josh. Appreciate that. Now we're going to open the floor for questions and answers. So what we'll do, we'll have our online and then we'll open out to the floor.
How has Surveying and Spatial Information changed and what do you think the future
looks like in the industry? Great. Luke, do you wanna take that one? Great question, Salvator. How has it changed? So I guess I've been around long enough to say. years old, so I've been around a little while now. How has it changed? I guess a good example
is the one I gave before around Sydney Opera House. We did a 3D model of the opera
house probably early 2000s. That would be done so differently now using scanners.
If you recall the video of Caitlin before scanning outside this building, that would be done in
probably, I wanna say a quarter of the time of how long it took us. I think we spent two weeks actually, thinking back to how we modeled those shells. It was for a lighting project to put light onto the shells themselves. But the way that we had to do that, what we called traditional Surveying with what Josh touched on there, the yellow boxes. And we actually had LiDARS at the time, but, so there were, what were they? Orange boxes I think. That took us two weeks. I don't know if you've got a feel of how long it would take you now, but I'd say it would take probably a day or two of capture and then probably three or four days of processing time. So the technology's changed a lot.
I think the diversity has changed a lot. You're seeing a lot more women in Surveying and you can see that our top boss, our surveyor general is a woman, which is great to see. I remember going to university and much like Josh touched on, I didn't get the grades at high school 'cause I preferred chasing girls, partying, and other things at the time. So I didn't get the marks to go straight into university. So I went to TAFE, did two years at TAFE and that gave me two years, sorry, the two years at TAFE gave me one year of credit at university.
I then finished university and went on to become a registered surveyor. So yeah, so there's different pathways. And so I think that, yeah, they're probably the two big things is the diversity has changed a lot and the technology has changed a lot and is changing every year. And I guess like we touched on with the UAVs, the drones, the hydrographic, the technology is just changing quickly. So we need good young people coming through like yourselves that know technology really well and can teach old dinosaurs like me how to use some of these new equipment. Yeah, fantastic. Thank you. And that's important to note I think, is that you raised a good point.
The technology's evolved so much that it's not lugging these big pieces of equipment through the field and far field, which has put some people off in the past. But yeah, the evolution of technology means it's very accessible, very portable and mobile and it's certainly a space that we're trying to encourage a lot more women, a lot more females to come into and explore. It is a male-dominated industry at the moment, but we're hoping to change that, bring in some more females.
Caitlin, can you talk to your experience about being a female in Surveying? Yeah, so it was a bit daunting at first going into an office where you're surrounded by men. But it was very quick to sort of just accept me and ask my opinion. And you still go out on site with a bunch of males as well and yeah, I think it's just changing.
It's continually changing how women are accepted in the construction industry, which is really good to see because it's allowing more women to feel comfortable in that environment. So I haven't had any major issues on site. So I don't think women should be scared off from doing it because of that. So as long as you have the confidence within yourself, stand your ground, you'll be fine. Yeah, love that. Excellent.
Do we have another question? Thanks, Rachel. We've had quite a few questions coming through, so we'll just throw to the recorded question from Geogre from Oran Park. And then I've just got a couple of quick questions after that. - Great. - Thank you. Thanks.
What skills should students be developing and what subjects should they take if they would like to pursue a career in this field? Excellent, thank you. Subjects and skills for developing. Caitlin, you've got the mic. Yup. So I think we touched on this a bit earlier before as well. So having good technology skills, communication skills, problem solving skills, all really important. Basic understanding of maths, don't need to do extension. I wanna emphasise that 'cause that scares people off a lot. At uni, you might do one subject that is maths-based, but after that it's nothing crazy. Yeah, so just basic understanding of math.
Good problem solving skills are really important. Excellent. And maybe an interest in being outdoors. Yup. Something a bit different is I feel like something you'd wanna do is not what all the other people are trying to do. So you know, Surveying is a very small part of, you know, this engineering industry. So if you do something like, you know, let's just say you get really good at coding for example. And you could be that person who's like preparing all the scripts or just this, you know, the background things that a company needs and then they'll be leaning on you because if you're the different opposed to like other employees, that's just gonna make you so much more appealing and you could probably pretty much go anywhere and ask for however much money you want.
You know what I mean? But that'd be nice. But I'm not there yet, but yeah, so yeah. Yeah, thanks for that. Okay. We have got quite a few more questions, but we'll answer them offline.
I'll just for one final question. We have had a question regarding the location of the work. So is it most commonly in the city or where are the opportunities? Great question. I guess everywhere. - Yeah. - Pretty much. Like, you know, in sea, on the land, on mountains, you know, in mines. Where's that? Yeah, yeah. So pretty much anywhere. I mean, I've personally only really done land Surveying, so. But you know, some of my mates, they've been out on the sea, you know, army and whatnot. But yeah, so. That's a huge demand for Surveying out in the regional areas as well. So if you'd like to get out of the city, there's a lot of scope and a lot of jobs out in regional New South Wales and Australia.
I think it depends on the type of Surveying you do and who you work for. So I've worked for a company where we would travel two hours plus to get to jobs 'cause that's where we have to go for our clients. Whereas at the moment, I travel less than an hour to get to all of our jobs. So it really just depends who you're working for, what sort of work you're doing. Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic.
Did you have something to add? Look, I was just gonna say, people I studied with went off to Antarctica, Canada, Asia, America, still in America, married American. And I obviously went over to the UK. So there's lots of projects internationally. But yeah, also some of my finest memories of actually being in the countryside on farms, on large rural areas in Hunter Valley when I was sort of growing up in Newcastle. And yeah, that country, regional work is some of the most sort of satisfying, fulfilling work. As well as obviously being in nature and seeing animals and unfortunately, snakes sometimes, but yeah, they're sort of some of the things. But yeah, like Caitlin touched on, it depends on who you're working for.
I'm working for a company that specialise in renewables, so we tend to do a lot of work outside of Sydney. But having said that, I also do a lot of projects within Sydney. So yeah, I've got a 320-lot subdivision near to here at the moment. Tomorrow, I'm at Randwick Hospital for a subdivision there, so it sort of takes you, or for me anyway, I work for a company that's international. So it doesn't actually take me all over Australia.
It takes our teams all over Australia. And when you're young, I guess like our audience here, you'll find yourself, if you want to put your hand up for regional or interstate work, then the opportunity's there for you. Yeah. What I'm hearing is that it's hugely diverse. Whether you want city work, farm work, regional, mines, water, high rises, the options are endless. So thank you. Thank you very much for your input and with that, we'll pass to John. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you to our presenters
and our panelists. Thank you, all, for attending this event and a special thank you to everyone who contributed to making this a success.
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