Steve Bull, Industry Lead – Creative Industries, TAFE NSW:
Good morning everyone.

Thank you for joining us this morning on our third Launch Your Career virtual event.

Launch Your Career is a NSW based industry and government awareness activity to highlight different careers.

And today we will be exploring the booming animation and VFX industries.

My name is Steve Bull, I'm Industry Lead for Creative Industries at TAFE NSW and I'll be your MC for today.

We have approximately 150 schools and over 1000 students on this webinar, so we're very excited to have you all with us.

Joining us today will be representatives from TAFE NSW, the Department of Education and most importantly, a fantastic selection of industry experts.

As this event is taking place in a virtual space, I would like to acknowledge that we're all standing on the lands of different nations.

I'd like to acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of all nations we're meeting from and pay my respects to Elders past, present and emerging and extend my respect to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people joining us today.

I'm sure by now you are all familiar with the Zoom meetings and the Q&A function.

Feel free to post any questions in the Q&A as we go through the presentation today.

In the last 10 minutes of this session we will have a live Q&A with our panel members.

There will also be live captioning for this event and this meeting will also be recorded and available on Start Learning after the presentation.

So over the next hour we're going to hear from our fantastic animation and VFX stars on their career progression and the amazing opportunities they have explored.

I'm sure you'll see how passionate they are about this growing industry and I hope you're inspired by their stories as much as I am.

To kick us off, here is the official welcome from the Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education, the Honourable Geoff Lee.

Ministerial welcome

The Honourable Geoff Lee, Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education:
Hi, I'm Geoff Lee, Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education.

I'd like to welcome you all to today's event and congratulate you for actively exploring career pathways in the animation and visual effects industry.

It's an exciting industry that is expanding here in New South Wales, with major studios being established in Northern NSW and Western Sydney and major studios such as Marvel, now located in New South Wales.

Events like Launch Your Career introduce you to a range of vocations available.

The animation and visual effects industry is an important sector that is growing and today you're going to hear from employers and industry leaders.

You're going to be inspired by the range of jobs and career opportunities available to you whilst you're at school and after graduating.

From today, we hope you're motivated to ask questions and find out what steps you can take to build your skills, experience and grow your connections and networks within these sectors.

Today we'll unpack unimagined career opportunities and further study pathways at TAFE.

The NSW Government currently provides free training in more than 1400 vocational and educational training courses under JobTrainer.

There are also more than 120 fee-free apprenticeship courses to choose from.

Today's event is a fantastic example of how collaboration between schools, TAFE, employers and industry can support you with your future move from school into study and employment.

After you hear from industry experts, make sure you connect with your careers advisors at school.

Talk to your parents about your interests.

Find out how you can investigate potential pathways available to you.

I encourage you to build your work readiness by participating in work experience or explore school based apprenticeships or traineeships.

I hope you enjoy hearing from employers, industry and TAFE NSW experts today.

Enjoy the day.

Steve Bull:
Thank you Minister.

So what does a career in the animation and VFX industry look like?

So I reckon the best way to introduce this to you is to show you. Over the last few weeks we've been working with our industry experts from some amazing companies.

These are Animal Logic, Cutting Edge VFX, Cheeky Little, Flying Bark, Plastic Wax and Slate VFX and we asked them a little bit about their careers.

So we put together a short video that highlights their amazing insights into working in the animation and VFX industries.

It also includes some of the work done by these great Australian creatives.

[Pre-recorded highlight video]

Speaker 1:
I'm really psyched that I got into it because it's just a dream come true working on films and games.

It's just a really exciting, fulfilling thing to be doing.

Speaker 2:
I've always thought it was a really interesting industry.

I love film and I love games and visual effects always really appealed to me.

Speaker 3:
It is very different for each person.

I think it's one of those industries where everyone has a different background.

Started as just a hobbyist 3D modeller. That was something I enjoyed doing in my own time.

And then sort of towards the end of Year 12 I decided, hey, this is something I want to sort of do as a job.

Started looking into how to do that.

Speaker 4:
So I was always interested in animation when I was in Year 12 and I did an animated project for my HSC and one of my tutors at that point said you should really look into turning this into a career.

Speaker 5:
I've been drawing since I was about 5 and I found watching cartoons and, you know, sci-fi on the television really interesting.

But I was always drawing all through high school, all through school, and then went and did animation in college and it just was a natural progression.

Speaker 6:
Well, there really isn't a typical day for me.

It tends to range all over the place within a single day.

I could be reviewing rough animation, I could be reviewing character layout, I could be discussing scheduling, looking at compositing and final clean-up looks and working together with our production team to basically get the show out there.

Speaker 7:
As a VFX supervisor, a lot of time we'd end up going on set as well.

So you do have opportunities to, let's say, take some of the crew along.

So you might take people to see how we're shooting a visual effects sequence, whether that be in a studio or location.

Then you can see how your shot that you might be working on progresses from concept, let's say, right through to final product.

That's quite, yeah, that's an exciting process.

Speaker 8:
Rigging's a really interesting department.

It's essentially the department before animation.

So animation needs essentially sort of digital puppets to move, to animate, and we're the ones that make the puppets.

So we're responsible for putting on the bones and muscles and controls on the characters that they animate or any objects and things in films and games as well.

Speaker 3:
I was actually looking more to go down an engineering path, mechanical engineering, that sort of stuff.

I was always one of the math oriented kids at school, maths and science.

It wasn't until late Year 11, early Year 12 that I decided I want to go down this more creative path.

The cool thing about the visual effects industry is the span of roles that exist within that industry.

There are math based roles, there are creative based roles, there are leadership based roles.

It's very flexible as far as you can change from one role to another as well quite easily.

But there really is just so many different ways of implementing the different skills that you'll learn during high school into this career path.

You can be on set, working on a blue screen, capturing all the information that's necessary, or you could be in front of a computer.

You could be developing the look or style or animation or movement of a character that's in a major film.

Or you could be someone putting those shots together and making it so that you've got a final scene.

So yeah, there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of diversity.

Speaker 9:
You can work anywhere in the world.

Animated content gets created internationally and huge studios all across the world like Spain, Canada and even New Zealand.

You have the ability to take your gear with you and do freelance work.

So you can either work at a studio internationally or you can go anywhere you want.

As long as you've got power, you can do your job.

Speaker 10:
It's one of those industries where you have to have a real passion for it and you're working with a large group of people.

A lot of times you have to be a team player, so really a lot of it, the technical skills can be taught, but a lot of it comes down to passion that our students might have and their willingness to learn new things and take on new challenges and sort of be able to deliver under pressure but also work with a team to create something sort of new and exciting each time.

Speaker 11:
The main quality I like to see in an up and coming artist is definitely the ability to take feedback and then extrapolate it going forward because no one comes into the industry knowing how to do everything.

Everyone comes in learning.

Everyone continues learning all the way through their career.

The more that you are able to sort of learn something and then keep applying it going forward is probably the main thing that we look for.

Speaker 12:
If the students want to get into this industry, I would suggest speak to the careers advisor at school and from that then I would look at all the other schools that are available and the TAFEs.

Do your research, work out where you feel comfortable and what attracts you to the industry and then apply for any of those positions that are available.

Speaker 13:
Absolutely practise in your own time.

Don't wait for someone to ask you to do something.

Constantly refine your skills.

If you don't know something, Google it, look it up.

How do I do this?

Watch YouTube videos.

There's so many people doing this now that really is getting easier and easier to teach yourself.

Speaker 14:
Somebody asked me the other day, what's my dream career?

I don't have a dream career because I'm doing it. Like there isn't anything else for me.

I could be a singer or a dancer, but it's not going to give me the same thing as being able to create whole worlds.

That's the benefit of doing this is you're creating other universes that nobody else has ever seen before.

And that's the really exciting thing.

Speaker 15:
One of the most exciting parts about this industry is just the rate of growth in it.

So while when I started six years ago, we were making cool stuff.

We make trailers for video games and in-game cinema and things like that, which is very cool.

It's cool to work on these games that you play in your spare time anyway.

But these days, pushing further and further beyond these cinematics, we're doing virtual reality experiences, we're doing simulations, we're doing Netflix series.

It's growing at such a rapid rate that it's really exciting to see where it's going to go next.

We're all aware that the world's changing and the idea of a digital world that's laid over the top of the physical world is going to play a huge part in content moving forward.

And I think the students who are wanting to get into this space, there's so many new ways to create content and so many avenues that really it's a whole new way of working, a whole new ecosystem.

And so everyone's sort of on the same page really at the start now.

So it's a great time to jump in the industry every now and again.

Speaker 16:
You remember that you're working with these amazing creatives from all around the world, and you're making content that you know people are going to be really passionate about.

And seeing the fan reaction when that comes back, and seeing people absolutely losing their minds over the quality of the show that's being made, over the scripts, over the characters, and seeing them bring all of their own interpretations to the show that you've been working on.

To me, that's probably the most exciting thing, just creating art that everybody seems to resonate with.

Speaker 17:
The fact that I actually get to appear in titles and stuff at the old credits at the end is just really awesome.

Some of my workmates have like walls of all of the films that they've worked on, and they've got just like walls of fantasy films and superhero films and just everything.

It's just a really exciting thing to be working on and to be like a part of.

Animation panel

Steve Bull:
Wow, what an amazing bunch of talented people here in Australia.

So next we're now going to move on to the first of our three panels for today.

The first panel we're going to kind of focus on the world of animation.

So I'd like to welcome from Animal Logic Simon Pickard, from Cheeky Little Darren Keating, from Flying Bark David Keen and from Plastic Wax Dan Horsfall.

And to facilitate this panel, I'd like to welcome the fabulous Vince Rossini, Head Teacher of 3D Animation at TAFE NSW.

So over to you Vince.

2D animation

Vince Rossini, Head Teacher – 3D Animation, TAFE NSW:
Hi, it's a great honour to be here, to be involved, to ask these fantastic creatives some questions about their jobs and skills.

And I'd like to start off with David Keen from Flying Bark about what exactly is 2D animation.

David Keen, Flying Bark:
Hey, how you going?

Vince Rossini:
Pretty good.

David Keen:
Excited to be here.

2D animation, it's such an exciting space.

It's basically any still images that are drawn to give an illusion of sort of movement and action.

It's sort of the stuff going from old school Disney like Snow White through all the Ghibli films and even stuff like Bluey that's getting made in Australia and all the projects getting made by a bunch of the studios that are here in the panel today as well.

Vince Rossini:
That's awesome.

And if I'm a student right now and I want to be a 2D animator, what are the types of things do you think I should be focusing on?

David Keen:
It's definitely a drawing career.

I think a passion for it and being excited about drawing all day, every day is a huge one.

We all spend 8, 9, 10 hours a day drawing and it's something that I have always loved doing since I was a kid.

And sort of just waking up and getting to do that every day is such a special cool thing.

But skills wise, it's definitely figure drawing and perspective drawing.

I'm a background supervisor with Flying Bark, so I work on all the backgrounds for some of the shows.

We've had some 2D shows like Ninja Turtles, 3D show and I'm working on Lego Monkey Kid, which is like a crazy, very interesting style, very anime sort of influence.

So lots of tricky Lego-looking perspective drawing and that kind of stuff.

Any of that is super important.

But then I think just being such a collaborative kind of industry, being a team player certainly was mentioned in the video before.

Interacting with people all the time and being excited to work with other people and learn from each other is a huge part of it.

Like I love getting to work with all these amazing people that are teaching me new stuff all the time, and that's a big part of the job.

Vince Rossini:
That's awesome.

Thanks, David.

I really appreciate it.

David Keen:
Thank you.

3D animation

Vince Rossini:
So the next person I'd like to speak to, to ask a few questions about, is Simon Pickard from Animal Logic.

How are you, Simon?

Simon Pickard, Animal Logic:
Hi, very well, thanks.

How's it going?

Vince Rossini:
I'm good, thank you.

I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about 3D animation in this case.

So what is 3D animation?

Simon Pickard:
Yeah, I mean, the differences between 2D animation and 3D animation are actually very similar.

There are very few differences.

We both use the same kind of techniques that were developed years and years ago by Disney animators primarily on shows like Snow White.

And those kind of lessons and techniques that they learned during that time we still use today on 3D films as well.

So the differences are very small.

I guess the tool that we use is different.

In 2D, you're using a pencil like the previous person sort of mentioned, or a pen or something like that, or nowadays, like a tablet or a Wacom pen.

We primarily use kind of a computer and do things in a 3D space.

So some things are definitely easier because of that, but the fundamentals are still the same.

So things that are easier are it's easier to kind of move around objects.

I guess sometimes in 2D animation, it can be very hard to kind of keep the volume the same as you're moving around something.

And in 3D animation we get that for free.

But on the flip side, some things that 2D animation gives you, this beautiful kind of fluid line work that gives the motion a really beautiful kind of quality.

And that can actually be harder in 3D.

We have to work harder sometimes to get that feel.

You can do it on both sides.

It just takes a little bit more work on one side or the other.

But yeah, they're actually very similar.

Vince Rossini:
And do you often find yourself acting out a lot of stuff and recording yourself to get the movements and the poses you need?

Simon Pickard:
Yeah, 100%.

We have here at Animal Logic, we have a whole studio with film cameras.

And what I love about this industry is the projects change every year or every six months depending on the length of the project.

So, you know, two years ago we were all acting like rabbits to do Peter Rabbit 2.

So we're all hopping around trying to be rabbits.

Now we're doing a different show where it's more human based.

Acting is a huge part of it in the 3D kind of animation space that I work in.

So yeah.

But we film everything and we show everybody, each of us acting.

And it takes a bit of time to get used to having your work and your acting showing in front of everybody, but everybody then feeds off of that as well.

So yeah, it's very collaborative.

Vince Rossini:
Sounds very fun.

And would you say it's a similar process for someone who was interested to get into 3D as it would be to get into 2D animation?

Simon Pickard:
I think so.

I think somebody mentioned in the intro, just practise, practise, practise.

Animation can take a long time to kind of learn and the amount of opportunities and courses online now are vastly more than when I started 25 years ago.

But one that I actually learned from is still going pretty strong.

And that's called the 11 Second Club, which is just you get an 11 second audio clip per month and you just do a little animation to it.

It can be 2D, 3D, stop motion, anything you want.

And then there's a forum online that will help give feedback on that.

I started doing that, was terrible, over a few months got a little bit better and better.

I would recommend doing something like that.

Really be proactive and search these clubs and forums out and you can get the rigs, the puppets that you use to animate with, for free now.

So yeah, there's nothing stopping you now like there was back 20 years ago when I was trying to get going.

It's actually a very great time to get into this industry.

There's so much information and courses and everybody just really wants to help everybody get better and learn from each other.

Vince Rossini:
That's awesome.

Thanks so much Simon.

Simon Pickard:
That's great, thank you.

Vince Rossini:
The next person I would like to speak to is Darren Keating from Cheeky Little and Darren, he does lots of concept design and concept art.

Hi Darren, how are you?

Darren Keating, Cheeky Little:
I'm good mate, how are you?

Vince Rossini:
Good, thank you.

So the question I wanted to know was what exactly is concept design and where do you sit exactly in the pipeline?

For example, concept design in animation.

Darren Keating:
I'm just going to go back a step because we've just talked about 2D artists and 3D artists.

I work in both fields and concept design works with both of those 2D and 3D worlds.

It's basically the starting point of when an idea that somebody might come up with, like a writer or a creative, might come to us.

My company is Cheeky Little.

Somebody will come to us for the concept and somebody might have a script or somebody's actually written an idea on a piece of paper and said, hey, what do you think of this?

And it's where I as an artist start drawing that idea and concept as the best of my abilities of what I think they are wanting.

And it can be in a very realistic world or it can be a very 2D world, depending on the show that we're doing.

I kind of sit in very different fields in my business.

I am the concept designer and I start the ball rolling for a show and then I have a team of people that will work on that show together.

But I'm also animation director, comp reviewer, I have many different skills because I work for a very small company.

So I do a lot of very different things.

But as David said, my main thing is that I draw most days.

It's the main thing that I do.

And my favourite thing is just to come up with ideas for people to see how they react to it and get a good reaction is the main thing that I'm looking for.

I mainly work in a kids space.

We do kids shows for the ABC.

So it's mainly preschool stuff.

So it's not as hyper realistic as maybe what if for League of Legends or Arcane or anything like that.

So it's mainly a bit more junior, but I still have to create a full world from scratch for anybody who's coming up with an idea.

That's really cool.

Vince Rossini:
And so obviously what you create is important because it allows the rest of the team to be able to build from that.

So it's the beginning almost.

Darren Keating:
Yeah, it's definitely a starting point.

And it comes from a lot of different sources.

I use a lot of reference material.

I try and take in as much information from as different sources as I can and try to be very open to all sorts of different things.

I like to go out and explore the world.

I mean, even looking at a tree or travelling to Spain or something.

It's all information staying in my brain so that when somebody comes up with an idea, I have something to pull from.

And to start with, I think that's really important to look at as many things as you can in your life.

And I draw a lot of reference stuff myself.

So I'm just drawing all the time and I draw in many different ways.

I try not to stay in the same form all the time, but it's always drawing perspective like David was saying, or characters and all sorts of different forms.

Just the baseline of drawing is probably the most important thing for me.

Vince Rossini:
And so for people that are interested in becoming a concept artist or concept designer, would it be just pretty much what you're saying?

I guess just drawing, lots of drawing and experience?

Darren Keating:
Yep.

I interview a lot of young people coming through the studio and the main thing that I'm looking for is someone who it just pours out of them, like they draw every day.

They can't help themselves.

That's kind of what I'm looking for, is someone with a lot of different ideas, even if they're a bit rough with their stuff.

I'm looking for that little gem of somebody knowing how to turn an idea, but it is mainly drawing every day that I'm looking for.

People who, on the flip side of that, don't tend to draw but come up with ideas, I usually veer them off in a different direction, still in the same industry, but they might be better as a writer or a producer or somebody else.

Like they may not have the drawing skills, but you can see that there's something there.

And I try to veer them off into the industry as well, but maybe on a different course.

But mainly I'm looking for people who basically can't help themselves but draw.

3D modelling and Unreal

Vince Rossini:
That's great.

Thanks so much Darren, really appreciate it.

So the next person I want to ask some questions to is Dan Horsfall from Plastic Wax.

Hi Dan, how are you?

Dan Horsfall, Plastic Wax:
Good day.

I'm good, I'm happy to be here.

Vince Rossini:
That's great.

I wanted to ask you a few questions.

One of them is what is modelling and how does that relate to something like Unreal?

Dan Horsfall:
Yeah, right.

Cool.

So modelling is kind of a broad term.

There's a couple of different things sort of within it, but at the end of the day, what it really is is just drawing in 3D.

So like I said, there's a few different ways.

You can start with like a primitive, like a cube or a sphere, and sort of mash that around until you kind of get the shape you want.

That's sort of a more old school traditional way of doing it.

You're starting with your primitives, you're sort of taking designs from the concept guys or from reference that you find online or anything like that and you're kind of just massaging it to get it to sort of be the shape you want.

A slightly newer way, which is funnily enough kind of an old way, is sculpting.

So it's kind of like the old fashioned, you get a lump of clay and you sit there and you sculpt it and get it to look the way you want.

That's actually becoming a very powerful way of making characters and really high fidelity things where you want that really granular detail like skin pores and stuff like that.

You can use these sculpting tools now to get basically a hyper real human head that is hard to differentiate between real life and what's not these days.

And then as far as Unreal is concerned, Unreal is kind of like the new kid on the block as far as rendering technology goes.

It's been around forever as far as making video games.

I'm sure most of the people watching have played video games.

And a lot of those games are made in the Unreal game engine.

And it's reaching the point these days where that Unreal game engine is actually powerful enough to get these hyper realistic renderings, but in real time.

So we can jump in there, we can get our models in, we can get our textures in, all that sort of stuff from all the different departments, the animation, the 3D animation, all that stuff.

And we can light it, we can shade it, we can render it, all that sort of stuff.

But it's like a video game.

So we can move the camera around in real time.

We can go, you know what, this shot's not quite working.

Let's just move the camera a little bit and it just works.

You don't have to sit there and wait three hours for it to render again.

It's live.

So that's the super exciting new part of the industry.

Vince Rossini:
Is this Unreal?

Dan Horsfall:
It is Unreal, but this Unreal rendering is very new.

It's very exciting, yeah.

Vince Rossini:
And so now rendering traditionally took a long time, didn't it?

Dan Horsfall:
Absolutely.

So yeah, rendering traditionally is a process where you get it ready, you hit a button and it goes off to another machine somewhere and it can take, you know, between half an hour to four hours to render out.

Not even necessarily a final pretty looking image.

It can be like, here's just the shadows and then another render will be here's just the light and stuff like that.

And then it goes to someone else that stitches it all together.

Unreal is doing all of that live.

So what you're seeing in your little viewport, it's looking like the final image.

Vince Rossini:
So awesome.

And same question.

If there's someone who's interested in learning how to model in 3D and working a game engine such as Unreal, what advice would you give them?

Dan Horsfall:
Honestly, just start doing it.

So the biggest hurdle that you're going to come across with the 3D modelling side and stuff like that will be the software and learning the software.

Obviously there is a creative element to it as well, but the software will be the biggest hurdle.

There's a huge number of resources online about learning this stuff.

You've got Unreal, it's free, so you can download it, you can use it.

You've got modelling programmes like Blender, that's free.

There's a huge wealth of knowledge out there on these free programmes.

I would say just jump out and start using them.

What’s the best part about working in animation?

Vince Rossini:
I've just got a final question for panellists and that is what's the best part about working in this industry?

Simon Pickard:
I can offer my two cents on that.

I think it's the people.

We get to work with teams.

We all know each other well.

You know, all of the studios share people between different teams.

The animation industry is a very small industry, the animation and VFX industry.

And so, you know, I've worked in London, I've worked here in Sydney and you get to know people, you form bonds and friendships.

The projects have quite a fast turnover as well.

You'll be working on something for say a year or six months and then you meet a brand new set of people and you get to know those people really well.

And everybody I've met is just super into their work, really friendly and fun to be around.

So I would say it's the people honestly.

It's such a cool industry and I think that would be it for me.

Vince Rossini:
Thank you so much for that.

That's great.

Does anyone else have anything that they wanted to add?

Darren Keating:
Well, I pretty much agree with Simon.

It's mostly the people.

Vince Rossini:

Yeah, I suppose I know that my graduates, they're really excited because they will, you know, do lots of freelance work and like you said, meet lots of people and travel the world and work on different projects, lots of different projects.

So it is great. It's really fantastic.

David Keen:
Yeah.

It's very cool to have that shared passion with so many people at work as well.

Like everybody's on the same page with all the stuff all the time.

And you've just got this group of people that are so excited about everything that you're working on together.

And I think that's a rare thing really to have that shared interest with everyone to such an extreme level.

Like you're just all so into it and you're making this thing that you're trying to make the best thing you've ever made.

And it's a very exciting, cool thing.

Vince Rossini:

And it's always getting more, there's always more technology, it's always improving and there's always new things to learn, right?

So it makes it interesting. There's always something.

Darren Keating:
The other thing about sitting with a large group of people, especially in big groups of teams and stuff, is that everybody's maybe coming from a different angle and somebody might have a different idea that you've never thought of.

And your learning curve goes up because you're sitting with somebody else who's gone, like this is the way that I made something or colour something.

You're just like, oh, I've never thought of that.

You're just coming from such a different angle and you might give that to somebody else.

Your learning just goes so big when you're sitting with a big group.

It's great stuff.

Dan Horsfall:
We'll just throw in there as well.

Another really cool thing.

There are some really cool projects that we work on, like working on superheroes, Batmans, Supermans, like Mortal Kombat.

There's some really cool stuff that we get to work on.

David Keen:

Australian industry is just blowing up with so many cool opportunities for all these interesting projects now.

We're in such an exciting space and such a booming time.

It's a very cool time to be interested in the whole entertainment industry I think.

Vince Rossini:
Yeah, for sure.

There's a lot happening.

Steve Bull:
Everyone, that was fantastic.

Thank you Vince.

Thank you Darren and David and Dan and Simon.

That was extremely insightful and I'm sure that everyone on call got a lot out of that.

So we're going to move on to panel two and this one we're going to focus on VFX and everything related to that.

So I'd like to welcome from Slate VFX David Booth and from Cutting Edge VFX, Courtney Cooper.

And back to you, Vince.

Vince Rossini:
I'll start off with Courtney Cooper from Cutting Edge.

Sorry, it's a broad question, but can you tell us a little bit about, well, first of all, how are you?

Courtney Cooper, VFX Producer, Cutting Edge:
I'm doing well, thanks.

How are you?

Vince Rossini:
That's great.

I'm good.

Thank you.

Can you tell us a little bit about CGI and VFX?

What's CGI?

Courtney Cooper:
Yeah, it's a great question and it's such a broad space.

You know, CGI traditionally stands for computer generated images and that actually extends to visual effects and animation.

In terms of visual effects specifically, I think the main point of visual effects is to add something into a shot or into a movie that wasn't there in real life.

And so a big part of what we do is, you know, a director has a vision where he's making a cool movie with a bunch of robots or a bunch of superheroes.

And, you know, people unfortunately can't fly in real life and you don't get super articulated robots in real life that can talk yet.

And so our job in visual effects is to add those things in what we call post production, which is after the live action portion of the shoot has been shot.

And so in terms of CGI and how that all blends in together, you know, visual effects specifically, we often work with 3D animation.

So similar to the kinds of things that Simon was talking about earlier.

And we will create our assets or we will create our environments and then use compositing tools and animation software to add those characters or those environments into existing shots.

And so I think with visual effects specifically, there's the visual effects that's very obvious and very in your face, which is what I was talking about in explosions, superhero powers, robots, that kind of stuff.

And then there's what we like to call invisible visual effects, which is the stuff that often people don't know is actually computer generated.

So, you know, as an example, there'll be a film that was shot here in Australia, but it's meant to look like America or overseas.

And with that comes, you know, needing to add very specific buildings or mountain formations in the background and whatnot.

And part of our job is to build those assets and build those environments and add them in, in a way that is seamless and in a way that, unless you had a very keen eye, you would never know that it was actually visual effects in the first place.

Vince Rossini:
And would you say that it's more of a, I mean, there's obviously a specialty role, but you need to have some generalist skill to be able to model and do some things like particle effects and a variety of things in that role?

Courtney Cooper:
Yeah.

I mean, it's one of those things where I think the answer is both.

I think that there is not any set way that you need to be inclined to be able to do this stuff.

I think in this day and age and with so many resources available, whether it be through studying, you know, at TAFE or university or just teaching yourself online, I think there's lots of avenues to get into the industry.

And I think there's lots of ways for you to learn.

I think there are definitely shows and studios in particular that have what we call generalists who kind of pick up a whole bunch of different things.

So they might model, they might texture, they might do rigging or lighting as well.

And then you also have studios, especially bigger studios, where you do have people who specialise in a specific department.

And I think it just depends on the project and where your passion lies.

I think that there's many different avenues you can take.

Vince Rossini:
That's great.

Courtney, I was gonna ask you about the approach to studying to get there, but you did already answer that.

Do you have any more to add on that?

Courtney Cooper:
Yeah, no, I mean to touch on that a little bit.

You know, as for myself as a visual effects producer, to be honest, it was never my career path when I was in high school to become a producer.

And even now I still wonder, you know, like as a producer, is this the path that I'm going to take long term?

You know, I think ultimately people that get into this industry are passionate about filmmaking and making content.

And that's ultimately why they get into it.

You know, when I was in high school, I just knew I wanted to make films.

And then when I graduated and I started studying, I actually wanted to be a rigger, which the girl in the video at the start had mentioned that she was a rigger at Animal Logic, and that was the path that I wanted to take personally.

And then when I actually started studying and I got into it and had an opportunity to experience all the different facets of a production pipeline in animation and visual effects, it was really then that I realised that production was the direction that I wanted to head in personally.

And that was purely because A, I like bossing people around and B, it gave me an opportunity to see the full umbrella of departments that go into making a film.

For me personally, you know, I didn't want to just be an animator and I didn't want to just be a lighter.

I wanted an opportunity to be able to work with artists across that entire space.

And so I think the most important thing when you've got people that are looking to get into this industry is to let them know that it's such a big space and there are so many different pathways for you to take.

And just because maybe you're not the best drawer, or maybe you're not great at acting or you're not good at modelling or you're not sure where to start, I think there's opportunities for everyone.

And I think that in this industry in particular, it's probably one of the most diverse industries because you've got people who have mathematics or scientific backgrounds who can come and share their expertise and build tools to create this work.

And you've got people who are more production and clients who can jump in and help work out schedules and keep an eye over the larger projects.

So there's definitely a multitude of avenues to take when getting into the industry.

Vince Rossini:
That's really great.

So there's something for everybody.

They just need to investigate.

Courtney Cooper:
100%.

Yeah.

Vince Rossini:
So awesome.

Well, thank you so much for that, Courtney.

Vince Rossini:
And the next person I'd like to speak to is David Booth from Slate VFX.

Hi, David.

David Booth, VFX Supervisor/Director:
Hi Vince.

Vince Rossini:
How are you?

David Booth:
Not too bad.

Vince Rossini:
I was just going to ask a little bit about live effects and compositing.

Can you tell the audience a little bit about what live effects are?

David Booth:
OK, so live effects is quite diverse.

So you go everything from basically an explosion, let's say, that we shoot on set.

It could be right down to little wisps of smoke, right through to fireworks, to little flames or whatever.

And there might be components that you apply to a big shot.

So you would shoot a whole bunch of various, let's say, smoke as our background.

So we'll let that into a shot.

And all these are tied together so they all end up being part of the compositing realm anyway.

So you might have a scene with, let's say, a war scene with hills and people running over the hills and all the environment pieces.

And you'll want to add more smoke to it, explosions in the background.

So all those little bits that you do, sometimes you can get away with shooting them for real, but that's quite dangerous.

So even in the realm of what's been going on recently, you want to keep those things down as components and shoot them isolated in a specific area so they're safe.

And then apply them into that scene.

From that you might shoot, OK, so we've got a scene, we've got certain camera positions.

Then with the special effects department, you might break down and say, OK, I need X amount of gunshots, I need X amount of explosions, ground hits, pieces that might be bits of wood chip and cork that might explode.

Shoot those as components that you might put against black or against blue or green screen.

And then from that, you composite those into the shot, each one being broken down to suit the action of the actor, the reaction that might happen with the explosion or the stunt person, you know, flying through the air, enhancing the flames that were on the stunt guy that's on fire, making it last longer.

All those kind of components to make the shot more exciting visually, acceptable to what's supposed to be happening within the scene.

And that goes from being something as big as that.

So it might just be adding atmosphere in the back of a street just to give it a bit of depth so that you roll off and you don't want to see what's in the background.

So that might be, you know, a bit of smoke or a haze that you add into it.

Or it might be some lighting effects that you add in that you could shoot those components and with compositing, layer those into that scene.

Vince Rossini:
OK, now sorry, keep on going with compositing.

David Booth:
Compositing is basically adding a whole bunch of components into one shot to generate, you know, the shot you're after.

So that could be multiple layers of animation.

For instance, that might be the background plane with animation placed over the top to give you the depth and realm that you want and control the components separately to, you know, like I was saying, smoke, explosions, bombs, whatever else you've got in it.

Or it could be as simple as, yeah, adding a car that might run into the back of another car, but enhancing the way the bonnet bends or the lights or the glass explodes around it.

And each one of those will be components that either it's shot or has come from CG.

So you could end up with the bonnet being a component that you've photographed yourself.

It could be that the glass from the broken windscreen is generated as shadow from 3D that's added into the top of it.

The lights in the background could be stuff that you've actually shot separately.

It could be removal of, you know, the signposts that you didn't want to have in that scene that's there and replace it with another one.

So all separate components.

So compositing is basically the mending and blending of all those things into one shot.

Vince Rossini:
Yeah, that's great.

Thanks so much for that, David.

Sounds like a really interesting, like you're just bringing everything together.

David Booth:
It's the glue at the end.

Vince Rossini:
Good.

All right.

Thank you so much.

What's the best thing about working in the VFX industry?

Does anyone have anything else to add about that?

David Booth:
Yes, I could add to it.

Vince Rossini:
Yeah.

What's the best thing in working VFX industry?

David Booth:
The diversity, the amount of various roles you can be involved in.

You're not necessarily pigeonholed into one thing.

You can go and try different techniques, different styles, different avenues.

And most, yeah, everyone has tried diversifying across the whole industry.

Vince Rossini:
That's great.

David Booth:
So, you know, you might be working with someone on set that was a special effects guy.

Next month you've got him working as part of the team in front of a computer.

Everyone's trying to experience different levels that the industry offers.

Vince Rossini:
That's great.

Thanks so much, David.

Really appreciate it.

Steve Bull:
I'm just going to have a quick chat with Ashley Rohm Henson, who's sitting next to David there.

How are you, Ashley?

Ashley Rohm Henson, Trainee, SlateVFX:
Good.

Thank you.

How are you?

Steve Bull:
Good.

Thank you.

So this is an obvious question, but where do you work?

Ashley Rohm Henson:
I work at Slate VFX at Fox Studios Moore Park.

Steve Bull:
Fantastic.

As a trainee.

Ashley Rohm Henson:
As a trainee.

Steve Bull:
Great.

So what course are you currently enrolled in?

Ashley Rohm Henson:
I did a Certificate IV last year in Screen and Media, but currently now I'm doing a Diploma of Screen and Media VFX.

Steve Bull:
Great.

And as a kind of trainee within a company like that, what sort of things do you do each day?

Ashley Rohm Henson:
Well, last year I sort of started in the 2D compositing area.

And then working closely with industry professionals, guiding me through their softwares and just some general knowledge.

And then I journeyed into the 3D environment where I started in 3D tracking, working on Mortal Kombat and Clickbait, which is a Netflix series.

And so I was learning, jumping onto those projects.

And then I'm currently learning different aspects of 3D at the moment.

So I've been doing animation and also look development.

So making objects and assets look a certain way in different shots, in different environments.

Steve Bull:
Well, what a great way to spend your days at work.

So what kind of attracted you to this in the first place?

Ashley Rohm Henson:
Well, ever since I was young, I had an interest in filmmaking and creating and looking at those films and seeing how people around the world were making these non-fictional realities and presenting it to audiences.

And I was just fascinated by that.

And that sort of inspired me to be, I want to do that.

I want to make these realities more believable and to express that around the world.

And yeah, just the creativity behind the job and then also a technical knowledge side of it as well really fascinated me and interested me.

Steve Bull:
Great.

And what's your kind of 5, 10 year plan?

Where would you like to end up?

Ashley Rohm Henson:
Well, there's a range of jobs and in this industry, it's great because you've got a range of jobs that anyone would like or it fits a range of people.

But in this industry, I have a passion for the post production industry.

I love visual effects and I love making those realities look realistic to people.

So definitely I want to explore more of the 3D environment and creating those sort of assets and making that sort of stuff.

And then, yeah, I just really want to stick with the post production industry.

It really interests me in terms of getting this footage and manipulating and making it look amazing and making it look like the final result that would end up being on the big screen.

And yeah, really inspiring those people and audiences around the world and transporting them into those realities.

Steve Bull:
Fantastic.

Thank you very much.

Really appreciate those insights.

So we're going to jump into our next section of the presentation and we're going to have a quick chat about TAFE NSW career paths.

So I'm going to introduce you to Sandi Lucock, who is also an Industry Lead for TAFE NSW Creative Industries.

She's going to run over the study options offered by TAFE NSW Animation and VFX.

Sandi Lucock, Industry Lead – Creative Industries, TAFE NSW:
Thanks Steve and hello everyone.

TAFE NSW options for animation and VFX are found within the streams and specialisations of our Screen and Media courses.

This is a snapshot from our homepage for media and entertainment courses on the TAFE NSW website where you can find out more information about our courses.

The Certificate III in Screen and Media Animation stream is the course to begin your vocational education pathway.

This course is offered full time as well as a TVET option.

The Certificate IV in Screen and Media Animation, Visual Effects specialisation follows on from the Certificate III in Screen and Media.

The Diploma in Screen and Media Animation, Gaming and Visual Effects specialisation builds on skills and knowledge from the previous qualifications.

The Certificate III, Certificate IV and the Diploma of Screen and Media qualifications are all offered full time and have traineeship opportunities.

The Advanced Diploma in Screen and Media Animation and Visual Effects stream is also offered full time.

All qualifications from Certificate III to Advanced Diploma are Smart and Skilled funded with VET Student Loans available for Diploma and Advanced Diploma.

The Bachelor of 3D Art and Animation is the pinnacle of animation and 3D and VFX courses at TAFE NSW.

This has a strong focus on building a portfolio of work so you're ready for roles in the 3D and visual effects concept or pre-visualisation, 3D modelling for interactive games or creating visual characters, environments or effects for a feature film.

There are two ways you can enter the Bachelor.

The most common pathway into the Bachelor is through completing the Advanced Diploma in Screen and Media with Animation or Visual Effects stream.

The other pathway into the Bachelor involves a two-step process of showing you have completed either your HSC or a Certificate IV in any area.

Along with this evidence, you need to present a portfolio displaying a range of digital or handwritten artworks suitable for Bachelor entry level students.

There is HELP available for the Bachelor of 3D Art and Animation.

TAFE NSW also offers many short courses in animation, digital imaging, VFX, short filmmaking, creative software, illustration and observational drawing.

The duration of courses can run from two days to 2 to 12 weeks depending on the course, with focus areas being updated each term depending on local or industry demand, so it's good practice to keep an eye on the TAFE NSW website.

Please note that not all courses are offered at all locations and that some courses are only available for school leavers.

The TAFE NSW Schools Launchpad is a different way to think about schools and TVET, which stands for TAFE-delivered Vocational Education and Training.

The Certificate III in Information Technology Game Design course combines teacher-led virtual classrooms with workshops in fast growing industry.

Learn storyboarding, animation, creating 3D models and textures and learn to write code to power game engines that drive storylines.

Talk to your careers advisors to find out more about this fantastic course.

Steve Bull:
Thank you very much Sandi.

So our final little segment for today.

Before we go into Q&A, I'd like to welcome Olga Gromov, who is a Head Teacher Careers from the Department of Education, who will offer you some tips that will help you explore a career in animation and VFX.

Olga Gromov, Head Teacher Careers, NSW Department of Education:
Thank you, Steve, and welcome everyone.

As a careers advisor and art teacher, I'm really excited to be given the opportunity to present and support students in their career exploration.

So if you're a student and you've tuned in because you're interested in a career in the creative industries, here are a few tips to consider when planning your career pathway.

So number one, I'd like you to use your time at school as an opportunity to undertake vocational experiences and activities.

This can give you a head start in your career development and things can include participating in extracurricular activities.

They help build your portfolio, they build your skills and they also build a better understanding of how the creative industries work.

Also explore school based and external VET courses that can be undertaken while you're in Years 10, 11 and 12.

VET courses in the creative industry not only give you a qualification but provide you with industry specific know-how and help kick start your career.

Really important is to speak to your career advisor.

Career advisors come with a wealth of knowledge and can support you in creating a career and transition plan, help you find education and training options after school and link you to industry based events.

I also want to really highlight work experience.

It's vital in gaining a snapshot into your field of interest.

Not only is it a great learning tool, but it's also an opportunity to make connections and start networking in the industry.

And speaking of networking, this brings me up to tip number two.

Something to consider in a really dynamic and broad industry is the development of your employability skills, or what's also known as your soft skills.

And networking is definitely one of them.

So get out there, undertake internships, attend events, talk to people, and get insider knowledge.

You never know who you cross paths with and how connections can lead to new opportunities.

Another skill to consider is your ability to adapt and change, and it's definitely important in the current climate.

The animation and creative industry is ever changing with emerging technologies.

Keep your eyes open and ears to the ground on what's new and happening.

Trends are being made every single day.

Teamwork is something else to highlight.

Working with others is a skill required for every industry, but especially rings true to the creative industries.

Projects require a number of people to come together to learn and listen.

To lead and express your ideas are all important skills when working with others.

Take risks.

It's something that we always talk about.

Take calculated risks.

Be brave.

Open yourself up to new opportunities that will help you grow, help you develop your skills and experiences.

Of course, with risk taking, you also need to build your resilience.

Being able to bounce back from adversity is hard, but a vital skill in the current job market and especially relevant to the animation and VFX industry.

Rejection will happen, but it's about getting feedback and trying again.

And for my last tip as a creative is to stay creative.

It's important to stay passionate and keep your creativity going.

Get out there, get involved, look up creative events within your city or online.

You never know when your next source of inspiration comes from.

So that's it from me.

Thanks, Steve.

Question and answer session

Steve Bull:
Thanks, Olga.

And that's some great advice.

So look, finally we're going to have a quick Q&A from the most popular questions from the chat.

So I'm going to pass over to Sandi.

What have you got?

Sandi Lucock:
We've had some wonderful questions coming in.

Thanks everybody.

I've got one for Simon Pickard.

Is 2D animation any easier than 3D animation, Simon?

Simon Pickard:
Oh, I think I wouldn't actually think about it that way.

I would think about if you practise, like we keep saying, practise and keep working up your skills, your acting skills, your drawing skills, the tool is kind of secondary to me.

So I would find 2D animation way harder than I would find 3D animation, for example.

But the end result that we're trying to get to is, as somebody else mentioned, it really comes down to it's a series of images that move and to make people that watch them feel something.

And if you can think about things that way, that you observe everything around you, and you come to the clip or the little thing that you're practising with that in mind, the technique is something that can be learned.

You can learn Maya or Autodesk tomorrow as a package, or you can learn to practise, to draw and get better that way.

But think about what it is that you actually want to put onto the screen or onto the page.

And I think you won't go wrong if you think about things that way.

Sandi Lucock:
Thank you so much, Simon.

That was a good one.

Now I've got a question for Darren from Murray High School.

How do you stay motivated and inspired while working on long term projects?

Darren Keating:
I did answer this in the chat if anyone wants to read that again, that's OK.

I've worked on many different projects that range for about three months to probably about three years.

Probably Blinky Bill at Flying Bark's the longest.

Projects don't stay in the same state as you're moving through them.

They tend to change as you keep progressing.

People come up with ideas, new ideas all the time.

Scripts change a lot.

Sometimes you take a left turn, so there's always new information, new things happening all the time.

You have to come up with new ideas.

People keep giving you stuff to do.

It's never dull.

You'll never stop doing something.

There's a new problem every day that you have to overcome, a new idea that comes in from somebody else that's a great idea and everybody takes it on board.

And then you have to change everything that you've ever done for the last three months.

So it's never going to be dull, would be my answer.

Sandi Lucock:
It sort of leads into another question that's come in.

What's an average duration for an animation?

So how long does it normally take?

Darren Keating:
Depends on what you're working on, I think, and also depends on how much budget you have and how much time you have in lieu to do something.

TV shows that we do, like I'm working on a 24 episode, seven minute long kids TV show, will probably take us about a year and a half to do that.

Blinky Bill, as I said, probably took about three years from script stage to get to the cinema.

They can range from very different things.

Short term projects can take as little as two weeks depending if you've got everything up and running.

It varies quite a lot.

It's probably very different for live action.

I can't answer that.

Maybe someone who works in the more live action visual effects field probably has a different answer.

Sandi Lucock:
We're coming right up to the end of our time.

Well, actually we are right on time.

I've got one quick question.

I don't know if I'm able to ask this, but how often do you get to write for a project?

Anyone who would like to answer that one?

Courtney Cooper:
I'll answer it.

I think it's an interesting question.

I think in terms of the animation and visual effects sector, there's probably less opportunities to specifically be writing.

And I would say that for anyone that's interested in getting into the writing space, there's probably more screenwriting courses and filmmaking courses that are not as centric to animation and visual effects.

But that said, I think a big part of what we do is collaborate.

And often times even if you're not specifically sitting there writing the content, you have the ability to help shape what things look like and what the story looks like in progression, especially in departments like animation where you are really telling a story through what you're putting on the screen.

As Simon mentioned earlier, I think that everyone is constantly able to work together, to problem solve and to work out the best way to tell that story depending on the show and the medium.

So I think there's lots of avenues to be a creative and a storyteller.

But in terms of specifically being able to write for shows, I think there's probably better suited avenues for you to explore.

Sandi Lucock:
Thank you, Courtney.

Thank you Steve.

Steve Bull:
Well thanks everyone.

We're at the end of our session today.

Thank you for everyone who's on the call and has joined us.

I hope you got a lot out of it.

Quick thanks to the great team from the Department of Education and Training Services in TAFE NSW and of course Orval from Greater Visuals who put most together and was manning Zoom.

So thank you Orval.

Amazing support from Animal Logic, Cheeky Little, Cutting Edge VFX, Flying Bark, Plastic Wax and Slate VFX.

Wish you could all give them a round of applause because they deserve it.

Let me just do that in your seats.

So look, before we go, could you please complete the short questionnaire accessed by the QR code on your screen, which will be sitting there for the next five minutes or so, and let us know how you enjoyed the session.

Also, you can answer a few more questions if you are interested in working full time or part time in this area and learn about more study options or work experience or industry tools.

So thank you very much and have a great day.