Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW podcast was recorded on the homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Shannon:

We're so excited to be back on the couch today, myself Shannon and Siobhan joining you and we also have Linda joining us today. So welcome, Linda.

Linda:

Thank you for having me.

Shannon:

Linda is a primary school teacher with over 18 years experience so we're really excited to pick her brain about all things teaching. But she's now the director of digital teaching and learning. So, she'll be joining us here to talk about the support that Technology 4 Learning provides and we'll share some advice to help our pre-service teachers, early career, and experienced teachers to create engaging digital classrooms. So, thanks for joining us.

Linda:

My pleasure.

Siobhan:

We like to warm up our guests on the couch by doing a little bit of a segment called 'This or That’. So, I'm going to ask you to pick your favourite. You can be Switzerland if you feel strongly about it.

Shannon:

We don't advise.

Siobhan:

Yeah, and we usually like to chime in too. So, the first one is, Apple or Android?

Linda:

Apple.

Shannon:

Oh, she didn't even hesitate.

Linda:

I'm an Apple Watch user. Once you've gone there, it's impossible to go back.

Siobhan:

I agree, it's like, yeah.

Shannon:

Must close those rings.

Siobhan:

Must.

Shannon:

Yep, I understand.

Siobhan:

Yep, Apple as well for me.

Shannon:

I too have fallen victim to the Apple and the Apple Watch saga. I honestly, there's been countless times before bed that I've caught myself having to do star jumps just to close my rings.

Linda:

Extreme measures.

Siobhan:

I love it. What about this one? Smart Board or whiteboard?

Linda:

A combination. I think, yeah, I would have to have a combination. We know a lot of our teachers like to have both options. We can have our main learning displays, which they’re now called, not Smart Boards. They have a whiteboard feature on there, but sometimes it's nice to be a bit more tactile with an old whiteboard marker.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah, I agree with you.

Siobhan:

Love a good annotation with the whiteboard marker, but when I'm feeling a bit, not very confident about my handwriting in front of the Year 7s I'll be like, ‘Oh I'm typing all of this out now. So, stay tuned.’

Shannon:

Love that. Yeah, I'm a mixture of both. There's probably a space and place. I've spoken before on this podcast about my love for OneNote and I just love how on the interactive whiteboard I can have all that up and zoom in and out and pick and choose, circle, whatever I need to do.

Linda:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

What about voice notes or sticky notes?

Linda:

Sticky notes.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Linda:

I think the whole voice note thing, even out of school world, of people leaving you voice recordings instead of a message is almost an insult on my time. Like, why are you doing that to me? Just send me a message. So, sticky notes is what I would go with every time.

Siobhan:

I do appreciate the new upgrade from Apple where they actually have a transcript for all the voice notes.

Linda:

Oh see, I don't know because I don't accept them.

Siobhan:

Oh, there you go. I like the boundary that you've set.

Linda:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

It’s good.

Shannon:

Linda and I wouldn't be great communication styles. We're quite opposite.

Linda:

You're all about the voice notes?

Shannon:

Love. Love a voice note. I don't know how I've ended up on this podcast. I just love to chat. No but I, and I have mentioned this actually in previous episodes, at the end of the day when I was teaching, when I'd be going around cleaning my room, I would do my

Siobhan:

Lesson registration.

Shannon:

Lesson registration, thank you. Had a mental blank. And my evaluations as a voice-to-text even. So, not even a voice note, but then on OneNote again, and it would transcribe it. Honestly, a game changer for me. But, space and place for sticky notes as well. Absolutely. And I like to place them around my computer and make a real decorative display of reminders.

Siobhan:

I think there's a sense of motivation too when you can crumple up the sticky note or throw it out because that task has been achieved. I do like that.

Shannon:

Instant gratification almost.

Siobhan:

Agreed, agreed.

Shannon:

All right, well let's get down to business.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Let's get a bit serious, Linda.

Linda:

Let's.

Shannon:

Tell us about your journey. You've gone from classroom teaching to your current role as a director. Bring us back.

Linda:

Yeah, I think, you know, I decided really early on I wanted to get into teaching. And sometimes people ask why and to be totally frank, I'm not really sure why back then. But I had a very fixed mindset. I don't have teachers in my family. I just decided that's what I was doing. And you know, finished my degree, started working in Mount Druitt, which I absolutely loved. And honestly, go out of my way to encourage beginning teachers to do what feels like the hard work, but it's not. It's where great teachers are made when they work in environments that show the full spectrum of different learners and different communities. And from there I went to the UK. I needed to do a bit of time overseas.

Shannon:

Travelling the world?

Linda:

Yeah, travelling Europe and just living the London life. I worked at a couple of fantastic schools in East London which is very much a low socioeconomic area, different accent. But learnt a lot about the differences between the systems. And I suppose, I think what I learnt really quickly is what we do as a system around the whole child and making sure academics is not the only focus for our schools. Whereas, kind of the schools I got to know, and of course I associated with a lot of teaching friends there as well, back then, that was early 2000s, mid 2000s, the focus was still very academic over there. There was league tables and Ofsted was still very hard. So I did about 5 years over there. Came back here. Obviously, you know, had almost had everything NSW related out of my brain. So, getting my head back around the new, the curriculum here. Taught in a couple of schools and then kind of setup our family up in the top North Shore part of Sydney up near Hornsby. And went to a school up there. And in that school I worked in lots and lots of different roles. I was there for quite some time. So, I went there as a classroom teacher, got an assistant principal role there. Then had a couple of years as deputy principal. But I think the interesting thing for me, being in a school for as long as I was, is we must have had, I should have counted, probably 6 principals in that time. So, I think as a teacher, the school changes a lot with new leadership.

Shannon:

Of course.

Linda:

So it wasn't like I was in the same school. Every 2 years it was different with a new leader coming in. And gosh, learnt so much under some remarkable leaders there. And then in the back of 2019 I was having a milestone birthday and I thought, I really need to shake this up and see what I might want to do. A very good friend of mine sent me a job ad and she said, I think this would be for you. You'd be great at this. And it was for the principal education officer role for the STEM T4L program. And it was one of those very quick, I think I had about 3 days before it closed. And I thought, oh, I'll just throw my hat into the ring. Nothing will come of it. I'll deal with the logistics of how will I commute to the city, how will I manage that, etc, later. And then I had an interview, got the job and just didn't really ever have an ambition to work in education support. But then I did. And since then, I applied for the director role a couple years later. So, I've been in that role since the end of 2021. And now I'm here talking to you.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So, had you always had an interest in that STEM area? You mentioned that a friend sent something to you and sort of went, this is a bit of you.

Linda:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

What would have sparked that for her?

Linda:

Yeah look, when I, with my work in the UK, that was kind of when ‘Smart Boards’ really started taking off and everyone that was in education realised the engagement factor, that multimodal need that lots of our kids required. And the community I was working in was really interesting. And we had a really big target to improve engagement, particularly for our boys. So, we created a hub with the community and with the kids that was a learning space designed and tailored for their needs. It was very interactive, there were a lot of Smart Boards in there, and it was one of those things I built and left, like it took a long time to get there. Then when I came back here, I did support the rollout of those interactive displays at a couple of schools that I was working with, or at, rather. And I think I learnt a lot early about how do you get teachers that have a lot of experience to consider, not changing how they teach, but tweaking it ever so slightly. Or just maybe reconsidering how they can bring digital in. And I did some things really badly. I was at a couple of schools, really asked to help do that and I could see where I lost some teachers because they thought, this is too much, too quick. And I think there's something about how do we differentiate for teachers the same we do in a classroom? And avoid that, ‘OK, everyone sit down in the staffroom or in the library after school and let's all just listen to the same thing and hope that it resonates and you can adapt.’ Does that makes sense? So, I could see early the technology was making a difference to learning for our students. I was very, I suppose, across that research piece of ‘future of work’ coming and how what we were currently doing probably wasn't going to prepare our kids and the need to shift.

Shannon:

For 21st century learning.

Linda:

Yeah. And I think, I seemed to just be really interested in that part of education when I was a classroom teacher. So, I had the joy and the freedom to dabble in that a little bit at my last school where a really inspiring principal that I had, had said, ‘I just want to take you off class for a year and just see how you can support all the teachers.’ It was a really big school so we did need that time. But yeah, I think it just happened by accident. I'm not 'super technical'. Or I'm not the person that someone says, ‘What cable do I use?’ or, ‘Can I get Apple TV working at home?’ At all.

Shannon:

Depends on the day.

Linda:

Yeah, or who's around to help. But I just think there's something that we have a responsibility in my mind, that my own children and children in our schools now cannot possibly have the same learning experience I had. Or you had, and you're much younger than me. We really need to make sure that when they transition to a secondary school, when they transition to university, to TAFE, to skills, to wherever they go next, that they are really well-equipped citizens. And that they are prepared to adjust and adapt to whatever technology is around them at that workplace or that learning place. So, yeah I think that's kind of where that interest really stemmed from. STEM'd from.

Shannon:

Yeah, now you've really summarised that well.

Linda:

Also a part-time comedian.

Shannon:

I love that. We always welcome a joke here. But also integration of technology. I like how you, you know talking about sort of the students that are in school now. They're the future, you know. And we're living in this digital world, this digital age. So, not only do we have to be so mindful of building the capabilities and skills that they have in digital literacy, but also making sure that they're safe digital citizens, as well. Which is a whole other piece that we could probably talk for hours on. What would your advice be to teachers, you know, early career, beginning, even current teachers, about integrating technology into the classroom?

Linda:

Yeah. My advice would be to be brave. You can't break it. I think teachers really need to explore, and we'll talk about it more I'm sure, around what's already out there to help them, where they don't need to create a whole lot of things themselves, but also, they don't need to know everything. They absolutely can have a piece of software, a piece of hardware in front of our learners and go, ‘Hey, how might we do this together?’ That's really hard for some teachers to adapt to. But gosh, we see some kids thrive in those environments. You know, the ones that might not be the ones to finish the activity first, or to have their hand up first. But they get in to solve a problem with technology, you see a completely different side to them.

Shannon:

Yeah. That perseverance that you see sometimes. I’m like,

Linda:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

‘Where was that when we were doing the maths problem earlier?’

Linda:

Yeah, for sure. And for many reasons, there's something about, just experiment. And use your learners as the guide as to how that response goes. But try things more than once. Because we've all had a lesson, whether it be analogue or digital, that at the end of it you go, ‘Wow, that was not great. So, I'm not going to do that again.’ Or a lesson you've stopped halfway through and gone, ‘We're going to come back to this tomorrow.’

Shannon:

Yeah, the power of the pivot.

Siobhan:

I've often found as well, that if you're picking the right tools for your class, you really have to look at, okay, will my class, do they have the foundational skills to use it in the first place? Have I taken time to actually teach them these skills and not just expected that from them? But I personally think it makes my life easier. Like a lot of my work is automated in that way by using technology. And the engagement levels in the classroom, particularly working with boys, are heightened

Linda:

Yep.

Siobhan:

Because they're interested in something. I think I've talked about it time and time again in the podcast, but Minecraft for Education. Didn't know anything about it. Right, and I saw myself as, you know, fresh to the profession. I know heaps about tech. Then they're like, ‘Uh Miss, can we do a lesson with Minecraft?’ I said, ‘Sure, if you're willing to teach me.’

Linda:

Yep.

Siobhan:

I wanted to safeguard it, make sure that it wasn't regular Minecraft and whatever. But yeah, I think that being open to learning from their perspective actually has you in good stead with the students, right? Because they say, you're open to learning in this way. So, yeah.

Linda:

And I think even with our STEM kits, you know, I was using them in my school before I went and worked on the program. And I remember as clear as anything, I was overseeing Stage 2. We had a kit that arrived. I had really experienced teachers who were like, ‘All these boxes and all these things. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to charge it.’ And I used to say to the teachers then, ‘I actually want you sitting at the desk doing nothing.’ Like, let the kids see if they can unbox it. Use the learning library, put that up on the board, and just see if they can, you know,

Shannon:

Tinkering.

Linda:

Tinker away.

Shannon:

It's a huge part of it.

Linda:

See if the kids can figure it out. And I don't ever want a teacher to feel a burden that, ‘Oh, I've got to know all the technology before I can use it.’ You don't. And every school has one teacher champion, has one teacher that knows a stack about technology. Buy them a coffee, ask them to borrow 15 minutes before school.

Shannon:

Co-teach even.

Linda:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Go in and observe their class.

Linda:

But every classroom probably has at least 2 or 3 kids

Siobhan:

Students, yeah.

Linda:

That are absolute naturals.

Siobhan:

Yeah, and it kind of gives them a bit of clout within the class. Because I say, ‘Oh, where's my tech whiz today? Oh, someone's away, who's stepping in today?’ And they're all like, ‘Me.’

Linda:

And those kids are probably not stereotypical, but they're probably not public speakers. They're probably not super academic. But you give them things like that and they will run with it. When we used to have our T4L awards, we had a school that had almost like a Genius Bar set up, like with Apple. Where at, I think lunchtime 2 or 3 days a week, teachers and kids could bring some of their technology and see if they could help them fix it.

Shannon:

Oh my goodness, I love that.

Linda:

Such an informal leadership that builds such pride in our kids.

Shannon:

Absolutely. You actually have really reminded me, just talking about, you don't have to be the expert. As a beginning teacher, you know somewhat, it took me a while to learn that I didn't have to be the expert. Or, that I just didn't have to have all the knowledge. I think when I stood back and realised, I used to do Hour of Code with my year ones. And I'd have some unplugged activities, some plugged activities, etc. And I'm a long time fan of the STEM share kits. I'd be on there looking at what I could order for the school.

Siobhan:

Can we circle back to those soon, because I want to know what's in them.

Shannon:

We will, we will. We won't leave you out in the cold, Siobhan, don't worry. Basically the STEM share kits were through T4L. Linda, you can probably talk more to this than I. But I used to go on and have a look at what would be available in my school. And you could book it, I think term by term at the time. And basically, the kit would get delivered to the school. It would have everything in it that you would need. But I booked these Lego WeDos. And at the time, god I can't even remember what we were, it was for science. I think we were doing the life cycle of a frog. And then I had this great idea. I was like, we're going to build the frog with the WeDos. Never played with the WeDos in my life, but I was like, you know what, we'll give it a crack. But I thought, actually I had some very good guidance from a colleague on the same stage as me. She said, start small. Do 5 in a group. And group your students and do your Hour of Code, but like the unplugged, plugged, etc. That was far better than me letting the whole class run wild.

Linda:

Yep.

Shannon:

And that was a skill that I really needed that mentorship to understand how to roll that out. But I gave it a crack and then I had these, it was like I had these 6 kids, I think, that were in the group, actually. And they became my little experts and then I was able to diversify the classroom and sort of mixed ability, all of them. And it was a great success. And you know, there were times that there was pieces that were missing and we couldn't understand why it wasn't connecting and why we couldn't code it. But it was that problem solving. And I think we built such a camaraderie as a class trying to persevere and figure it out. We went on that learning journey together and I was very honest with my students at the time. But I think they saw me willing to give it a go and they felt inspired by that. And I think that's all you can do as a teacher.

Linda:

And no one is suggesting, and I'm not suggesting, that you can go into your classroom and go, ‘I don't know what we're covering with English today.’

Shannon:

Yeah, for sure.

Linda:

There are so many things you have to know, but technology has to be something that we're brave. And the methodology you talked through, about how you integrated, is something we hear all of the time from schools that have used anything around T4L. But also, you know, we've just finished a big piece of work with the Rural Access Gap. We had a digital classroom officer in each of those schools. And that one great teacher who happened to know a little bit about technology was supporting their other teachers through that mentorship. That model is how we know great practice is built and how we can build teacher confidence. We had an academic researcher working on that program with us and 92% of teachers said it made a profound difference to their confidence using technology. And no one can expect a beginning teacher or an experienced teacher, or wherever you are on the journey, to just pull some technology and cross your fingers. And I think that's something that I am really proud of, how we work as a team in T4L. We know one size doesn't fit, like a classroom, it doesn't. So we try and have lots of different support mechanisms so that it's not just, you know, ‘Attend this PL,’ and it's not just, you know, ‘Read this information sheet.’ We really want to make it so that teachers can see themselves in how they might do it. And you know your learners far better than we do. And you know, the life cycle of a frog using Lego WeDo might not have worked in the next class you had. It could have been a diabolical disaster.

Shannon:

Yep.

Linda:

But that's the joy of teaching, is that every group is different.

Shannon:

Yeah, and that grouping was strategic at the beginning. Let me tell you. My first little ones that I thought, ‘Mm, I think we can do it together, guys.’ But if I was a Siobhan, who hasn't booked a STEM T4L kit before, where do I go now? What does that look like?

Linda:

Well, I'd be asking why. Look, we have, I think we're currently in about 92% of schools in the state have used a kit.

Shannon:

Wow.

Linda:

We know our secondary schools are a little bit less likely to book because they often have more equipment and more specialised staff. So, that's pretty common. But principals have the ability to book through our learning library. They can also delegate access to another member of staff.

Shannon:

Yeah, like a technology coordinator.

Linda:

Yeah. There's about 670 kits available each term.

Shannon:

Fantastic.

Linda:

Some of those are semesters. So some of our kits, and everything we do, it comes from feedback from schools. But a couple of those kits we heard more and more schools saying to us, ‘Oh could we just have it for another term? We aren't quite finished.’ And particularly those big schools. You know, you might want to move your Lego kit to another stage after that, for example.

Shannon:

Lego's not a one hour, those Lego WeDos, that's not a one hour and done. That Hour of Code went on for weeks.

Linda:

Yeah, so you can book through the learning library. We're also, you know, we're constantly refreshing and coming up with new kits. We've just released one podcasting kit, which is really exciting that we're talking on a podcast about a podcasting kit.

Shannon:

Siobhan and I could maybe pop on there and learn a thing or 2.

Linda:

You could!

Shannon:

Really upskill.

Linda:

We have a lot of schools that have already established podcasts. In fact, we've worked with a lot of those schools to help them build what their profile's going to be like and what equipment they should have. And now this kit really supports a school that says, you know the methodology behind STEM, which a couple of great minds pulled together, is that schools often buy great equipment, expensive equipment. They'll have a great teacher in the school that will use it. That teacher moves on, it goes into a cupboard, no one ever sees it again. No one knows how to use it or when to use it. So things like our STEM kits mean that our schools can use it for a term, use it for 2 terms, whatever it may be. And then return it. They don't need to deal with imaging it, updating it, making sure they've got all the pieces. We kind of look after that heavy bit for schools. And podcasting is a great one. Some schools have an ongoing podcast, but also it can be just a period of time where kids want to share their learning or what's happening. It might just be a once off. So, building those digital literacy skills through audio is great.

Siobhan:

Yeah, even jumping in from a secondary English context, a lot of assessment now is, it has to be multimodal assessments.

Linda:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So podcasting is a really great way to build in multimodal assessment, but also have it feel real world to the student.

Linda:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

You know, if they have that ownership from start to finish and then they can kind of say, ‘This is my podcast and I created this.’ And you know, I suppose they're submitting an assessment task as well. It's fun.

Shannon:

You're building that student voice, as well.

Linda:

And what we don't want, we don't want huge numbers of teachers going, ‘Gee, what technology should I buy for a podcast?’

Shannon:

Yeah.

Linda:

‘What hosting platform should I put our podcast on? What should I think about with the space I'm using? How will I embed it into teaching and learning?’ We've done all that thinking, and that's what we try and do with everything so that a teacher can go, ‘I'm a great teacher. Give me the CliffsNotes. How do I pull this in?’

Shannon:

Yeah.

Linda:

So, all of the thinking is done and that's something that we are very, very proud of.

Siobhan:

Yeah. You kind of touched on it there in terms of doing a lot of the hard lifting for the teachers, heavy lifting for the teachers. What is the mission or the vision of T4L in that respect?

Linda:

Yeah, so look, the STEM program has a very clear mandate to prepare students for their future. That really is the guiding kind of process behind it. Technology 4 Learning really focuses on that utilisation of technology, how do we ensure digital adoption with our teachers? Because I think pre-T4L some time ago, quite some time ago, there was really a view that teachers would just pick up on technology in their spare time. And those teachers that were super keen absolutely did. But there was no, I suppose, guidance from the department with that. And I think we create and we offer a lot of great technology. You know, we have, when we think about our beginning teachers, I know lots of teachers that have come in and they've gone, ‘Oh I didn't know I had Google Workspaces.’

Shannon:

Yeah.

Linda:

Or, ‘I didn't know I had access to OneNote. Should I buy that?’

Siobhan:

Canva.

Linda:

Yeah, Canva, all the things.

Shannon:

Even Adobe, yeah.

Linda:

It is making sure that all of the things that we offer can be really well used. So firstly, that people know they're there and that they're well used. So, that's really what we're aiming for. That wasn't a sharp synopsis of what we aim for.

Shannon:

It's hard to summarise it. There's so many good things.

Linda:

Yeah, I suppose we really work hard and it is that professional learning differentiation as well. You know, what do schools need from us to support the use of technology as our driver? And obviously, over the last 3 years, 4 years, probably, there's been a real shift. A huge shift. T4L used to do very big, whole-day, face-to-face professional learning in lots of different regional areas and metropolitan Sydney. And we know, not only COVID but post-COVID, that's not a thing anymore. We can't have teachers leaving their school for the day en masse to come to events. So, that really gave us a little bit of flexibility to go, well hang on, what might you need? And we sampled a lot of different ways. And we're very fortunate, the T4L community is very tight-knit. They're very honest with us, which we love. And they will tell us when things aren't working and they'll tell us when things are working. And that's what we are. You know, we're working for them. It's not about what ideas we think are shiny and fresh. It's what our schools need.

Shannon:

Yeah, and listening to that feedback is so important as well.

Linda:

Yeah.

Shannon:

One thing I want to draw our attention to because I'm an avid user, is the little bite-sized videos that you can access on the T4L website around Microsoft tools or Google apps. Where did that kind of stem from? Like those bite-sized snippets?

Linda:

Yeah, so that all came from learning from home. We had a very quick ask to support teachers in getting online, to do it very quickly while we had teachers at home. On reflection, we did a remarkable job in moving that along. At the time it felt like we were

Shannon:

Snowed under.

Linda:

Running up a hill backwards.

Shannon:

We all did.

Linda:

Yeah, yeah. And I think we were kind of, we ran some, we had this, I think a month period where we ran something outrageous, like 120 webinars that went for about an hour. Where people could dial in and go, ‘I want to use Google Classroom, I'll come and learn that.’ Or, ‘I want to use Teams, OneNote,’ whatever it is. And as we did that we're like, ‘OK, but hang on, Siobhan's been to the one hour and now she wants to know what to do next. Oh, we didn't plan for that.’

Shannon:

She wants to know more.

Siobhan:

I'm so advanced.

Linda:

‘Now she wants assignments.’ Yeah, so we then really realised that if we had it on demand, which to be honest, we didn't do a lot of on demand before COVID. It was very much live webinars, you would dial into a professional learning you would go to like in the olden days. And we went, ‘Well let's make it on demand so that when teachers have time they can watch a very quick video and click along.’ Because teachers love to click along to something.

Siobhan:

Yeah, just give me the links and I'll follow it.

Linda:

Absolutely. They do not have the time or the interest, nor would I, if someone said, ‘Come to this live thing when it suits me, watch it all, and then later see if you can remember it all and click along.’ And we kind of just needed that. One of our challenges in that though is I will say, those products, Microsoft and Google in particular, change every day. They move a button, they do something. So, we try really hard to keep those things fresh and current because we know the worst experience is when someone says, ‘It said to click here and it's not there.’ Yeah, so.

Shannon:

‘You liars.’

Linda:

So we try really hard to keep those going but we're having the longer webinars. And when I say longer I mean 45 minutes, an hour max. And they're for things we're kind of themeing instead. So we're doing parent-teacher interviews. Like, how will you run those doing video?

Shannon:

So, point in time.

Linda:

Yeah, not just how do you do the video conference, but how do you set it all up? How do you get the bookings done, all of that. And then later in the year we're doing things like, we know some schools have really thrived on the virtual celebrations at the end of the year rather than, some schools don't have a hall big enough, for example, or they have families that are giving feedback saying, ‘We're at work. We can't come in for 6 of these presentation days.’

Shannon:

Or you've got 3 kids at 3 different schools.

Linda:

Yeah, that's right. So, we're giving that kind of themed support. And we also have a team that, you know, we are very, very keen to help any and everyone with whatever problem they have with technology. So we've just rethought how we can do things. So we've got the short videos like you said. We've got our longer form and then we've got our magazines as well.

Shannon:

Differentiated for all members of the audience, haven’t you?

Linda:

We have. Well, that's the joy of having teachers in leadership.

Shannon:

I was about to say. Where did you pick up that practice from, Linda? Not your classroom, was it?

Linda:

You know, I think,

Shannon:

Transferrable skills.

Linda:

We have definitely, I've had the privilege of going into so many schools, meeting and talking with so many principals and their staff. And the team and I know what our schools need, particularly around how we can support them better. We'll never be done because technology evolves, obviously. But it definitely is a bit of a brave new world in the last few years about how can we make sure that teachers that picked up things through COVID to support learning from home, which, they did a remarkable job at that time. I will say everyone just should be really on reflection going, ‘Wow, we got over that.’ For us it was really exciting, because the people that were on the fence going, ‘Do I want to bring technology in? Do I want to know how to use Microsoft tools or Google tools?’ They kind of had a bit of a, ‘You're going to do that now.’ That helped us a lot. Because then we wanted to really keep people engaging with the technology. Some didn't. Some went, ‘Actually, I'm done with that. I want to get back to my face-to-face teaching and change that part of my practice back to what I was doing.’ That's fine. But we have an awful lot that have stayed in there. The statistics on our use of those platforms is just growing year-on-year.

Siobhan:

It must be so humbling for you when you said you go into schools to actually see the students using a product that you and your team have created.

Linda:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

I can only imagine that you can see that wide scale, the larger impact that you're making with the T4L resources.

Linda:

Yeah, it is. And I think our magazines are a bit of a testament to that. You know, we had magazine.T4L for probably a year before learning from home. And then during that learning from home period, I had 2 members of the team who are both teachers who said, ‘Let's make a kid's magazine with technology. And let's see if we can make it a self-paced learning journey with everything in there that's needed.’ So, that if teachers wanted to they could say, ‘We're just going to work through Issue 3 of the magazine.’ And the teacher doesn't, again, need to know any of the complicated things. And it's a really exciting product. It's something that we now have married in that, the T4L magazine for teachers matches the kid’s one. Most terms, don't hold me to that. So you know, this term was all about podcasting. So, there's the kid's version and there's the teacher version. But, kids are sharing their work with us with their teacher's permission. They're sending things in for us to review. But also

Shannon:

You’re giving them like a real-world platform as well.

Linda:

Yeah. And there's a lot of those real-world challenges in there. We've had a really good collaboration with Transport for NSW where they pitched a problem that they wanted support from our students with, which was great. And also in those magazines, again what we do on that same principle of STEM T4L, we really make sure that if you've got to register for a WeVideo licence, the information is there. Or like, ‘This is how you do it.’ So you're not then going, ‘Well I can't do it because I don't have access to that.’ So, we've really tried to think through the thinking parts so that teachers can just keep doing great things with their kids.

Shannon:

The education support staff is supporting, I would like to say.

Siobhan:

And how do teachers and students access the magazine?

Linda:

Well, it's a digital magazine, of course, but I was really pressured by my team to print them occasionally. So we do, I brought you some today.

Shannon:

Oh, goodies!

Linda:

Because teachers love something they can hold.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Linda:

In the staffroom. They do have a giant QR code up.

Shannon:

But what if the Wi-Fi is down, Linda? Got to have plan B, C, and D.

Linda:

That's a problem solved. I'll work on the Wi-Fi in my spare time. So, we do print them and we do, when we're on school visits, the team are regularly in schools, like every day we've got people in schools, they'll take just one or 2 and just leave them on the table, because that obviously then shares the whole catalogue. But they're on the T4L website. They're on the Universal Resources Hub. And that's probably where you'll find them. Or maybe in a staffroom table if you've had a visit from the support team.

Shannon:

Well, actually I don't know if it was a bit of like, it was the bane of my existence at school. ‘Miss, the internet's not working. The browser says I can't access it.’ I'm like, ‘Did you log in? Did you log in to the det@NSW, whatever it was?’ I used to have it on the window, and we were going through the kid's T4L magazine one time in class, the students, and one of the boys in my class put his hand up, he's like, ‘Did you tell them about this problem? How sometimes we can't get on the Wi-Fi? Because they've told us how we can do it, how to log in to the portal.’ And I was like, ‘It's not just you.’

Linda:

And honestly, but all of those things are like,

Shannon:

It's those little things.

Linda:

We have this expectation that we're going to make 5, 6 year olds that can do that very complicated log in, which I will tell you, I've got some very good colleagues at ITD that are working on a K-2 simplified log in.

Shannon:

Music to my ears.

Linda:

I taught Kindergarten for nearly 10 years and I have offered someone that's going to do it like Australian of the Year.

Siobhan:

Yeah, it's like 25 minutes just to log on.

Linda:

Yep. So we are looking at making that a more seamless experience. But there's also something real in it where, I love a class and a group of kids, not when it's critical and they're doing say an assessment task in high school, but I love when a Wi-Fi goes down, because how often does that happen when we're working now? I'll be in the office and all of a sudden, it'll go down. I'm thinking, ‘Oh, what will I do now?’ And that's just part of living.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Linda:

It's like anything. But yeah, it's a problem.

Shannon:

Preparing that resilience. No, I love it.

Linda:

Let's just call it resilience building.

Shannon:

Yeah. I like to call it character building, as well.

Siobhan:

Yep. All of the above.

Linda:

Well, tell us, what would be, we've gone through a lot of resources across the T4L team, but what would be your go-to resource in the classroom now if you had to pick?

Linda:

Oh gosh, that's a really big question. I think, this is really broad, but something I'm in more and more conversations about is how does a classroom teacher, or a whole school, think about how they provision devices across the school or across the classroom? So, I think that's kind of one of the first things to consider. All of us have worked in schools where sometimes it's, there's a trolley for Stage 2. Sometimes it's BYOD in our high schools. Sometimes it's, there's a lab. I think that's the bit you've really got to go, what actually works with how, what's here that I can, you know, are beginning teachers going to walk into a classroom, next term for example, and they can't say, ‘Actually this doesn't work for me. I would like this in my room.’ So think about what you've got access to first. That's where I'd be going. And making sure that that is going to support your type of teaching with technology. For example, if you have a classroom situation where you have access to the trolley 3 hours a week, you really need to think through, we don't want to be spending time with that technology doing non-digital things. So, how do we build the week looking that way? But in terms of my go to, I would absolutely say the STEM T4L kits. I think they are a really safe entry point for teachers regardless of how digitally mature they may or may not be. And I would use that to avoid that again, that investment of inter technology that may not be utilised. Plus, technology moves so fast. So, as soon as you buy something, by the time you've unboxed it, new technology is created that will probably supersede it. So let us do that work for you, would be my advice.

Siobhan:

You mentioned before, Linda, about the Beginning Teacher Tech Guide. So a lot of our listeners are beginning or early career teachers. So, I'd love if you could elaborate on what's involved, where to get it, where to access it, the Beginning Teacher Tech Guide?

Linda:

Yeah, so now we're in our second year of our Beginning Teacher Tech Guide. There's a lot of words there, isn't there? We might need an acronym.

Siobhan:

The BTTG.

Linda:

If I called it that people would go, ‘What?’

Shannon:

Oh, honestly I'm shuddering at another acronym, Linda.

Linda:

The T4L team and me, and I, love beginning teachers. So, I'd say welcome to the profession to your beginning teachers first. They've made the right choice. We really are passionate about making sure that when a new teacher comes into our system, that they, I believe for a beginning teacher, they need to spend their energies on building relationships with their colleagues, getting to know their learners and figuring out what this thing called teaching is and not thinking about all the other things. So, we've really drilled right down to basics to, ‘This is what the staff portal is. This is where you find it.’ I think there's even something in there around, ‘This is where you might find your pay.’

Shannon:

Yeah.

Linda:

These are all expected things and what we know for sure is that in every school that has a beginning teacher in there, how lucky they are, firstly. But it's taking time for people to sit down and go, ‘Oh just click there, and oh just click there, and just click there.’ And I would much rather, as I'm sure everyone would, that time was spent on, ‘Well, how can I get the engagement right with, you know, Billy. Or how can I adjust that literacy lesson so that it suits blah.’ And just focusing on the right things. So what we do in the tech guide is we really walk through what's available to you, to start off with. So what do we have, I suppose enterprise agreements with, how do you access them. And then what professional learning is available associated with those products. Because a lot of our beginning teachers come out and part of their big goals in that first year is learning about technology more. And again, that lift is done for schools in that, if a beginning teacher just follows that process, great. But our other thing with the Beginning Teacher Guide is, we've had some interesting feedback that it's not just for beginning teachers.

Shannon:

Mm.

Linda:

That some of our experienced teachers are like, ‘Oh, I didn't know that.’

Shannon:

Yeah. Or, ‘I was doing it a weird way.’

Linda:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Like, I might have been, yeah, like I remember even how we used to use central and I was accessing central in this bizarre way.

Linda:

Yep.

Shannon:

And there was one day that a more experienced teacher was like, ‘What are you doing?’ Like, sitting next to me in the staff room. And I was like, ‘What do you mean? I'm just going on Sentral.’ And showed me this way that was one step versus the 7 I was taking.

Linda:

Yep. And that's what we're looking for, aren't we? We want to cut corners where it doesn't count. You know, let's just make that part really simple. But also have our teachers equipped. You know, the department is big. Figuring out who to talk to in your school. And I always think about those super small schools. I've been at a school that had 6 students. So, who might you ask if you're there for one day a week? You know, you've really got to think about what your best use of time is. So, we will release it every year. It is absolutely not just for beginning teachers, but we have built it with beginning teachers in mind. But it also has spring boarded into a couple of special edition ones that we're working on. We have done one for teacher librarians to really support them in their roles. We have done one for SASS staff so that they are all across all the different admin components that they have on offer as well. And we're about to launch into doing one on assistive technology for SLSOs.

Siobhan:

Wonderful.

Linda:

So they can understand how they can use those different, I suppose, functionalities and those tools to support their learners.

Shannon:

Yeah, like immersive readers and things like that, yeah.

Linda:

And we have had, we work really closely with the Aboriginal education team and they're very keen for a special edition for Aboriginal education officers to help them with how they might use technology. So, it is really trying to make sure that we're covering off all the personas that we can. But we know that if we can support beginning teachers, A, they'll stay and B, they'll enjoy it. And that's what we're looking for.

Siobhan:

And I think just having that in a school as part of your induction process, you know. ‘Welcome to the school. Here's, just in case you need it, I'm not making assumptions on

Linda:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

what you need help with but the guide is incredible.’ So, yeah, I mean even handing out to prac students. Prac students have a department login when they go on placement and are so surprised that they can get access to the Universal Resources Hub and things like that. Just the simple questions. ‘How do I navigate my portal? What are the acronyms on the portal? How do I add a tile to my portal is really important too.’ I remember starting out in my first year. I'm like, ‘Oh, someone mentioned that they have Canva on their tile. How do I add a tile?’

Shannon:

Or even like accessing Canva for Education. You know, there's so many, like we’ve spoken about a multitude of times on the podcast. Like Minecraft Education. There are just so many tools out there.

Linda:

And the magazine definitely gives everything in one magazine. I'm nervous it will be like an encyclopaedia soon, because it'll just get bigger and bigger.

Siobhan:

It sounds like a cheat sheet to me, you know, what do I need and what am I looking for. You know, skim through.

Linda:

And I think when I go all the way back to where we started our conversation around things like interactive whiteboards and how I supported teachers with those in my early years of teaching. I used to say to teachers, ‘Wait until the kids are out at recess and then just play with it. Nothing can go wrong.’ And the magazine's a little bit like that. I don't mind if a teacher is sitting in her RFF going, ‘Oh, I'm going to add all the tiles that I want to my portal.’ Or, ‘I'm going to get into Canva Education and then make sure I know how to get in there next time.’ And we want all the steps there to support them. So, that's what we've done. We will have a new refreshed one for 2025, because obviously there's changes on little things. But that's the joy of having a digital magazine. We can change it in the background if there's something significant

Siobhan:

Oh, wonderful.

Linda:

And printed copies are the ones that we have to manage. But yeah.

Shannon:

Sounds like some real exciting things are up and coming for the T4L team. Is there anything else? Any projects or exciting initiatives that are underway that you can tell us about?

Linda:

Well in beginning teacher land, we're working a little bit with how can we do something before the beginner teacher mag. You know, I've been very keen for a while to have something like a little bootcamp where keen teachers that are interested, you know, in that early December when they've graduated and they've got a bit of a gap, might want to do some professional learning with technology prior. But also making sure we are building on our networks of teachers. I think that's an area we're really fostering a little bit more in making sure that teachers know where to go to ask questions, for sure, that's really important for us. And make sure that they definitely feel a sense of that shoulder-to-shoulder support because we are Education support staff. We don't want to feel like we're just doing things at schools, that we're working with them. For our STEM project, podcasting obviously just released, that's probably the newest thing.

Shannon:

Very excited to check that out.

Linda:

Yeah, but it's a great time to see where technology is headed and how we can support. But I suppose to any of your listeners and any future guests you have in here, we are very open to feedback. So, if someone thinks of something and they go, ‘Hey, why aren't they telling us how to do this and whatever.’ Find us, tell us anywhere, anyhow.

Shannon:

How can we find you, Linda?

Linda:

How can you find me, personally?

Shannon:

No, how can we find the T4L team?

Linda:

No, so T4L, we have our own website. So if you Google T4L, you'll find it. And from there it will kind of point you anywhere. We do have resources in the Universal Resources Hub. The digital support team, which sits with T4L is a very small team of non-school based teaching staff as well. And they have the ability to be booked for professional learning. So, quite often if schools get together for staff development days or twilight sessions, we go and support them in those.

Shannon:

Fantastic.

Linda:

So there are definitely ways you can contact through the T4L site and we'll put you in touch with them. But other avenues, we have a T4L teacher community.

Siobhan:

Is that like a Statewide Staffroom?

Linda:

It's like a Statewide staffroom on Teams.

Shannon:

On Teams, yup.

Linda:

And then we have T4L on Viva Engage as well. And we also, the other thing that I would think about as well is our news.T4L. That's a newsletter that comes out in Week 3, 6, and 9 each term. Which is the more technical side. And we have a lot of teachers that are very, very technical. But that gives a lot of what updates are coming, what changes are being made, that kind of thing. So I would say, find the right bits to follow. And also, find the right person in your school that's going to help, that's for sure.

Siobhan:

Your technology Marigold.

Alice:

Absolutely. Find out what coffee they drink.

Shannon:

Yeah, align yourself with them.

Siobhan:

I agree.

Linda:

Stay close.

Siobhan:

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. And thank you, Linda, for joining us. Your wealth of knowledge and experience within the classroom has really inspired me. And I'm so happy to hear how well supported our staff members in the Department of Education are. So, thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Linda:

Thanks for having me.

Siobhan:

Until next time, make sure you share this episode with a friend because there's plenty of resources that I'm sure you may not know about, or would like to know more about as well. So, share, like, comment, subscribe. And we'll see you next time.

Shannon:

Bye.

Siobhan:

Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning in to the Teach NSW Podcast, where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like and subscribe, to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. This podcast is produced by the Teach NSW team, from the NSW Department of Education.

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