Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast was recorded on the Homelands of the Darug People. I'd like to pay respect to elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples listening to the Teach NSW Podcast today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW Podcast. A podcast by teachers, for teachers. I'm Shannon and, I'm Siobhan.

Shannon:

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Teach NSW Podcast, a podcast hosted by teachers, for teachers. We are here today with your hosts. We've got Siobhan and myself, Shannon. Welcome back and thanks for joining us.

Siobhan:

And we're so excited to welcome our guest to the couch today, Inara. Inara is a pre-service teacher, so she's here to provide a perspective for the majority of our listeners who are in a similar experience to her. Obviously, Shannon and I have been through the experience of being a pre-service teacher before, but Inara is currently on her teaching journey and her study of education. Inara is studying a Bachelor of Arts and Education at the University of Sydney, with specialisations in modern history and business studies. So, we welcome her to the couch today.

Inara:

Thank you so much, I'm so excited.

Siobhan:

We first met Inara at a Future Teachers Club conference and we'll talk a bit more in detail about what the Future Teachers Club is, the FTC, but I sort of fan-girled a bit over Inara in that moment because,

Inara:

I did too, to be fair.

Siobhan:

She's just, you'll hear soon, so inspirational and I was really inspired by her journey and just the way that, Inara, that you articulate your passion for teaching and the people that have inspired you, so that's when we first met and then ever since we've had a couple of times meeting again at your university itself, in your education society, so our paths have crossed a lot of times and it felt really, natural to have you here today as a guest on the podcast.

Shannon:

And fitting to tell us all about pre-service teacher life and what that looks like, so we're really excited to have you here with us and to get started.

Inara:

Yeah, I'm honoured to be a part of the initiative because I think it's such a great endeavour to be able to provide resources and advice because that's one of the things you leave university or you're like in university and you feel like okay I've got the theory down I know how to teach modern history but the actual like practice of teaching like and actually knowing when you're put in front of 30 little humans and you're kind of told, 'Go for it, show us what you got.’

Shannon:

This is it.

Inara:

'And rolling,' and you're kind of like waiting for the minutes to go and you're like very, very anxious so I think initiatives like this where you can kind of have a laugh and have an opportunity to have a discussion.

Shannon:

And unpack it as well.

Inara:

Yeah, cause it's a huge, huge endeavour that, you're always learning.

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

And obviously just to preface, you obviously don't speak for every pre-service teacher, your journey is unique, but I think that especially for those who might not, who may not feel like they have a close network at university that they can speak to, even if like going through their practicum experiences I think hearing from yourself first-hand and, obviously Shannon and myself will share our own stories, but I just think that people can find some comfort in that and really resonate with, you know, your journey, so I suppose our first question to you would be how did you actually get into teaching? What was the decision?

Inara:

Yeah, we kind of tapped on it when we talked about the Future Teachers Club, but I think if you were to ask me like, ‘How did I get into teaching?’ it's a pretty unique and weird story like, when I was really, really young like reading and writing was always really tough for me. My mum actually made me go to like a handwriting coach which was, I thought it was, I was like, 'Why am I here? Oh this is so lame,’ and then every time we had like reading time in primary school I would just find it really, really hard to kind of sit still and get into the actual literature. Just because words were kind of tough for me to understand, around the stage 3/4 level. But I was really, really fortunate that I had an amazing primary school teacher, Mrs K. Shout out Mrs K. She took the time to give me extra reading support outside of classrooms. And then I found that I was really good at writing speeches weirdly enough. Like I, I found that that was something like persuasive speech writing was something I was good at.

Siobhan:

Knowing you now, that makes so much sense.

Inara:

Right, some context. But the problem that kept happening, I was writing every piece of writing like a script or like some type of speech.

Shannon:

I was about to say did you feel like you sort of learnt a formula and you felt comfortable with that?

Inara:

Absolutely, I think I was like very much writing everything in this really like expository like persuasive way that was a speech and my year nine, I was always in the bottom English classes and my year nine English teacher, another shout out, Miss Vella, shout out to Miss Vella, she spotted that my writing was very much speech-like, even in my essays and she took the time she actually I remember it brought me to tears but she took one of my essays, and like circled two lines, crossed everything else out and was like, ‘This tells me you've got something to say but I need to help you get past all of this other stuff.’ And then, so she ended up providing me a lot of support in terms of actual essay writing and she like, she made a deal, she was like either, because during reading time I was a bit of a naughty kid and I would put my iPod Touch or my phone in between the book and she kind of caught on very quickly that I wasn't, I wasn't reading, so she's like here's the deal, you come to debating classes in exchange for like not getting a detention essentially and I was like just give me the detention. I don't want to be in a room full of smart people talking about smart topics that I just can't articulate, that's I think, coming from that perspective of being the kid that feels really, really out of place in a class of 30 and quite shy to put their hand up and say that I'm confidently stating my opinion. So that was really kind of like an anxiety inducing concept for me, experience, yeah. But then I went into debating, and I went into that room, and it was like year twelves, year sevens, all ranges of people were just having a chat about these random things and I was like I could actually kind of vibe with this.

Siobhan:

Maybe I do have an opinion.

Inara:

Maybe I actually do have a lot to say, and then I ended up actually doing quite well in English, didn't pursue English teaching, but what ended up happening is that I found that through a love for reading I fell in love with history. I got to actually do a really beautiful project in year 12 about my own personal history and that was really eye opening because both my parents and my grandparents grew up during the war in Bangladesh, so that was an incredible experience to read and actually understand some really complex historical arguments. I would not be able to do that if Mrs. K in year three and four did not take the time to sit down and teach me actually how to enjoy reading. It's made me really fall in love with reading and writing, so I have a lot of compassion and love for English teachers, but I think my heart and soul is always going to be history and business studies.

Shannon:

Yeah, well we'd love to tap in a little bit more to what you mentioned before talking about the Future Teachers Club. We'd love to hear you know, what is the Future Teachers Club, we'd love to hear more about it and how it sort of helped you and supported you to get you to where you are to now.

Inara:

Yeah, well if I talk about why I got into teaching it's about those critical experiences with those teachers that changed my life and shaped my philosophy, but if I talk about the club that's been able to guide me and support me the most, it's the Future Teachers Club, which is a club that was started by the ex-Principal of Macquarie Fields High School, Jan Dolstra and a super passionate geography teacher called Mr Perry Celestino. Initially, it started as an endeavour to build a sense of community around teachers and actually kind of mentor and change the discourses what teachers and quality teaching was. So it ended up being a really powerful endeavour and extremely successful. So, you join the club as young as year nine and you get the opportunity to teach a micro lesson, either in a team with two people or by yourself. It also got to start some amazing initiatives that are now reflected in what the department's doing now. So, at 15 or 16, I was able to go on a rural high school exchange and I was able to see just like how rural teaching and rural schooling is very, very different, yet similar, to what my concepts of teaching is. Every school is different, every experience is different, but there was something so eye-opening about having and knowing what you wanted to do at the age of 16 and being like, this can open doors for me, which is a great tagline I must say, it's a great one. So yeah, the Future Teachers Club, I owe everything to Perry and Jan and the whole team who started the club.

Siobhan:

So, as part of the Future Teachers Club, you were talking about writing, like teaching micro lessons and like, I assume you were writing lesson plans, and I know having heard from Perry before that everything that he taught as part of the Future Teachers Club is aligned to the curriculum, so I'm interested to see did those experiences help you in your university degree?

Inara:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's one of the things I was really fortunate with, and I could wholeheartedly say that I was going into university at the age of 19 with a lot of practical experiences already in my back pocket. Like I kind of was already introduced to the Australian Teaching Standards, you know, know your students and how they learn, know the content, how to teach it. You're introduced to the concept of lesson planning and the concept of lesson review, which I think is more important. When you're sitting with your mentor and you're reflecting on how the lesson went, what you did well, what we could improve on and the journey from there, those are, those experiences really sit with me because I'm still practising those same skills now at the tail end of my degree, that I was when I was 15, which is a crazy concept.

Shannon:

And we can confirm you will practise those skills every day, no matter where you are in your career, like reflection is probably the most important part of being a teacher because you know, we can plan you know forever and a day, and there will be things that will happen that you cannot actually plan for, that you will reflect on. Things that went well things, that didn't go well, and that's part of teaching and that's, you just have to roll with the reflection and you know look at it for what it is and use it.

Inara:

I think the most important thing that the concept of reflection for me is that it was introduced in a way that was really positive and constructive. I think a lot of the times when people think reflection and review it's inherently negative or feelings of very personal like, oh I feel a bit attacked here.

Shannon:

Like criticism almost.

Inara:

But I think the amazing thing that the Future Teachers Club taught me and my supervising teachers taught me on my pracs, was the actual criticisms and reflections you have with your mentor, if you've developed a relationship of trust and positivity, everything they're saying is to make you a better teacher and you can always learn to do something better. So if you come from a place of I'm here to learn, just like everyone else, it becomes a lot easier.

Shannon:

Yeah absolutely.

Siobhan:

Now that you have a couple of pracs under your belt, what skills or insights did you actually gain from them?

Inara:

I think there's a big jump from your first to your second prac, but I think the mantra that I keep with me is that we're humans first and then we're teachers second, and I've heard a lot of teachers kind of say that around and about, but the way that I interpret that is, I think perfectionism can be a huge, huge fault for a lot of teachers. We spend hours and hours studying the theory of teaching plans and thinking about these really innovated student-led pedagogical ideas and you're really excited to put them forward, but you're human and sometimes you might have the most perfect lesson plan and you kind of step forward and you forget that it's the last period on a Friday and it's raining, so you're not going to get through the complex theories that you've been putting together because it's just not going to work with 30 kids who just want to go home.

Shannon:

30 little humans, you're human, but also you're dealing with little humans.

Inara:

I think one of the funny things that I did was, I was so excited about my first prac, I was I think 18 or 19, which is crazy to think about, the fact that I was put in front of 30 kids and told, 'You are now a teacher.’

Shannon:

In training.

Inara:

In training, with someone else still.

Siobhan:

The floor is yours, the floor is yours, in that moment.

Inara:

On condition. I went to Big W and I picked out all of the A - Z classroom management books that I could find. I like went around and I read it, and I was like okay, first thing I read, first piece of advice, ‘have a strict discipline and routine.’ Next thing I read, ‘don't smile till Easter.’ Next thing I read, and all of those things, you're like okay they're in my back pocket, I'm ready to go and you walk in and you have your beautiful PowerPoint slide, this is my experience not everyone else's, and you kind of go through your PowerPoint slide of like, these are my rules and routines, and then you just stand there.

Shannon:

You've only just met them.

Inara:

You've only just met them.

Siobhan:

And it's your first time implementing the rule and routine ever.

Inara:

And you don't even know how it's going to go, so. But I think the most important thing I can say is you learn from what you know, so you cannot learn unless you make mistakes and I actually really hope no one ever speaks to my first supervising teacher because he would have some really, really good stories of how terrible I was on my first prac, so.

Shannon:

Once you're a few years out, it's really nice, and I have done this, go back and read your prac report and you know once you have a few years in the classroom under your belt, even going back and re-reading lesson plans that you wrote in your first year and you just see how far you've come, and like, speaking on reflection it's actually really nice to go back and sort of re-read what you did and say like, 'Wow, I cannot believe like how far I've come, in you know, even two, three, four years out, how different I was from my first year.' Because you just grow and evolve so much as time passes.

Inara:

Yeah, I think that's one of the really beautiful things about teaching is, once you get into this part of it, this is the part that I love. The pracs, the practical experience, getting to get my conditional teaching and being able to do casual teaching. That's when I think I'm going to pick up the most amount of skills.

Shannon:

That's what we want to do, that's why we go and do teaching isn't it, so it's the fun part for us.

Siobhan:

Yeah, I think if anyone's listening right now and they're about to embark on their first practicum placement, what sort of advice do you have for them? How did you prepare? Can you prepare? Did you have any light to shed on that?

Inara:

Yeah, well it's a delicate balance between trying to make sure that you're not too zoned in on the micro details of like, zoning in exactly on making sure that my PowerPoint is 45 slides, detailed, making sure that I'm differentiating meaning, accommodating for the people that are in the extension level versus needing a bit more support and then also making sure that you're taking the time to actually take some time out of your week to really reflect on your teaching practices. But, I guess it's hard to pin down precise advice, that I would say, but I always used to say that the most important thing that really helped me was coming in with a question of, 'If I was a student and I was to step inside this classroom and sit down in this classroom would I be able to follow the instructions clearly? Would I be able to know what's expected of me? And would I be able to guess what would happen if I didn't follow the expectations?' And, if I've answered no or maybe to any of those that means that I probably need to go back and reflect a little bit more on my practices.

Siobhan:

That's, really great advice, yeah, you can see it from the student’s perspective, 'How can I make my lesson delivery or something that I'm doing have a bit more clarity around it.' I think that that's really important you're not just looking at, oh it's about because me, because you sort of do get in that, 'It's my first prac, it's my first day, I've never been here before.' But it's like, if you take a step back and go, 'Okay, the purpose is that I'm here to teach 30 students, how to write a poem, for example, it's not about me, it's about them and how they're going to adapt to me as well.' I'm almost an intruder in their space during their practicum so I also, if I could provide a piece of advice, I would say that connection on day one is really important over curriculum. That could be a controversial statement, I don't know.

Shannon:

Well curriculum comes really, doesn't it, but if you don't have that foundational relationship, and like you mentioned, you made reference to the Australian Teacher Standards earlier, like, know your students and how they learn. And when you are coming in you're coming into someone else's classroom.

Siobhan:

Correct.

Shannon:

And, you are a visitor, so you do need to build those connections from day one.

Inara:

You guys have made a really great point when it comes to the concept of relatedness and connectedness and that can be really hard for, as a praccie, because as you said Shannon, we're visitors, you're there for about maximum of 10 weeks which sounds like a long time but it really isn't and the kids are very used to having a different persona in front of you so I think another piece of advice is being really intentional and genuine with your teacher persona. That doesn't mean be exactly who you are outside the classroom as you are in the classroom. Being intentional means making an effort to greet each and every student at the door, can be a really great way to get to know them and know that, 'You can't escape me. Like, I'm going to say hi.'

Siobhan:

'I know you and your name and I know that you like the colour blue.'

Inara:

Exactly, 'I know one fact about you.' I think that can make a huge difference and I will say, I think about the best experience I had on my prac, was not even in my classroom. So, I was struggling really hard to build rapport, and that's me being honest and vulnerable, with one of my senior classes. Like I just felt like, they were very used to a certain teacher persona and I just was not that, and so there was an opportunity for a teachers versus student dodgeball.

Siobhan:

Oh, perfect. Go in and let them peg the ball at you. There's no better way to build trust.

Inara:

So, I was told by the year 12, 'Oh miss, don't worry, like this is just going to be a fun game don't even worry about it.'

Siobhan:

No, they go out there and they absolutely hammer you, it's the best.

Inara:

I was not ready. So, what ended up happening was, I was like, 'All right, I'll give it a go,' because they were like struggling to get numbers of teachers. I get there.

Shannon:

You're like, 'Oh, I can't imagine why, I can't wait to get out there myself.'

Inara:

Yeah, I was like, I was talking to, I was talking to staffroom, and I was like, I was talking to my supervising teacher, and I was like, 'Okay I'm going to like make sure I'm throwing underarm with my left hand because I know that I get really competitive.'

Siobhan:

Had a full strategy.

Inara:

'Yeah I'm not going to be too hard.' Whatever, I get to the hall and I've realised there were so many year twelves keen to verse the teachers that they had done a round robin of six and then they had the team that was the strongest, and we're talking about this is the Avengers of year 12 sports kids, versus me. None of the PE teachers decided they wanted to be a part of this.

Siobhan:

Yeah and you find out why in the end.

Inara:

Yeah, it's just a bunch of science teachers and English teachers and me, and they've lined us all up and all the balls are in the middle with dodgeballs, so you have to go and run for the ball. So I'm staring at all these kids who look like they're about to like run at me like bulls.

Shannon:

They probably were.

Inara:

They were, and so the whistle goes and I just like start running. I look around me, none of the teachers have run for the ball. So I'm the only one, so it's like 12 of these year 12 boys and me and I'm like, I've grabbed a ball and I've looked up, and I'm like oh my God I'm so done.

Siobhan:

You were out instantly.

Inara:

Best part was, I managed to steal behind someone, and I think one of the year 12 boys that I was struggling to connect with the most, I owe everything to him, he looked at me and he went, and he passed the ball to me.

Shannon:

Oh, what a moment.

Inara:

And I almost cried because I did get out in the next 30 seconds, but he still practiced empathy. You know what I mean, and that was, that was an experience. I wrote it in my journal when I went home.

Shannon:

Yeah, that's something that you will share with that student, do you know what I mean, like that rapport is so important and sometimes you can't build that rapport like that inside those four walls.

Siobhan:

Yeah, I honestly find, like if I have a student and honestly like at times you do struggle with particular students because they could be having a bad day. One of the theories that I learned in, at university was the idea of the concept of the invisible backpack. The fact that students carry a lot with them into their every day and so I do have to remind myself they are carrying their invisible backpack with things that are going on at home, in their personal life, healthwise and so I honestly find with students that I sometimes do struggle with, is to connect with them outside of the classroom, as in, in the playground or on an excursion or on an event day like when schools have special event days. Something where you can see them outside of their classroom or even in a classroom with another teacher and I think then you can kind of win them over in that respect. I think that's a really great piece of advice for pre-service teachers. If you do have a student or group of students that you're struggling with, see and interact with them in a different context and see how you go there.

Inara:

Well Siobhan, you've made a great point because if you think about it, I had a really great conversation with my supervising teacher where I was like, 'I've got this kid that just dislikes me, like whatever I do, I can't win them over,' and I have this sense of like drive where like if someone doesn't like me I'm going to do everything in my power to change that. So, I ended up having a chat to him about it and he was like, 'Think about every time that they've interacted with you, it's been in the classroom, it's been some form of reprimanding.' Oh you need to bring your books out, come on, hurry up let's do this', and that can sour even the most nicest relationship between a teacher and a student. And the difference between starting your day in the playground in the morning being like, 'Hey, how was your weekend?' can change the dynamic because then the frequency of those negative moments are replaced with a lot more positive, memorable.

Shannon:

And particularly in high school because you do see them for such a snippet of time in the day.

Inara:

It's a lot of kids.

Shannon:

It is, absolutely, like you know speaking, I've not been a high school teacher, I'm a primary school teacher, so I have those students for the whole entire year and I'm with them for all the hours of the day apart from my release time, so you have a lot more interactions with them. So, I think that's a really good point that you've made specifically for high school students and teachers.

Inara:

It's tough, yeah.

Siobhan:

I actually have, I was reading something on a forum the other day about how do you provide praise, because a lot of times I suppose it is easy to focus on the negative behaviour that's evident in your class, so I think that as a pre-service teacher I would really encourage you to reach out to your supervising teacher and ask, 'Can I, with your supervision, make a positive phone call home? Is there a system that we do that we could generate a letter to do a positive letter home?' Because they catch on and they come up to and they sort of accuse you like, 'Oh you called my parents'. And I'm like, 'Yes, and what did I say?' and they said, 'You said I was focusing and bringing all my materials in to every lesson.' And I’m like, 'Yes I did.’ And then they, you know, kind of get a bit chuffed about that and then the rest of the class sort of hear, 'Oh, miss is making positive phone calls home.'

Inara:

Yeah, you're modelling the right behaviour.

Siobhan:

They're going to work for that positive phone call and it's not, I suppose, like an incentive that they can see in front of their eyes, like a lolly or something, it's actually a bit deeper and you, not only do you build connections with the students but then their families and the wider school community. So, I would recommend doing so. I mean there's other ways to do it, lot of schools have merit award systems and you can, say one of the best teachers I know, and the students would always talk about it, 'Oh Miss Hamilton gives out a merit every lesson.' And so, it's like you know, the students are like, 'Who's getting the merit today?' And this works up until like year 10, 11 and 12.

Inara:

It would work on me now.

Shannon:

To be honest, I wouldn't mind a few merits in my day, yeah.

Siobhan:

Don't underestimate the power of a sticker either. I can remember buying a little sheet of scratch and sniff stickers when they're on special at Aldi, and I was like, this is a bargain. And the kids just went crazy for them, you know, it's like, those small things.

Inara:

I will say I fell into a bit of a pitfall on my first prac where I was very rewards orientated and that can be a real kind of downward spiral sometimes.

Siobhan:

I would honestly, starting out, I would recommend against it. I would rather focus on praise I would also recommend that if there's negative behaviour happening in in the classroom, I would recommend to praise the positive behaviour that's happening instead. So, if I have, if I want, at the start of my lesson for all my students to have a book open with the date and the title of what we're working on today, and the lesson intentions written down, I'm going to say, 'Well done, Inara, I can see that you have your book open. Next step is going to be to write the heading but you're already ahead, well done.' Then I sort of look around is there another student doing the same thing? They all follow suit, because instead of me saying, 'Shannon get your book out, start writing the heading, not good enough.' I'm praising the others.

Shannon:

If Miss is saying that to me, I'm closing the book.

Siobhan:

That's right. Whereas, Shannon's going to go, 'Everyone else has their book out and have written the heading, like, I think I might join along too.' Same thing, I would say you know, 'I love that everyone's got their AirPods out.' Kind of look at the person that doesn't have their AirPods out.

Inara:

They think they're so sneaky, the way that I thought I was sneaky putting my phone behind my book. The AirPods you can just see it.

Siobhan:

It just really makes a difference praising the positive behaviour rather than addressing the negative, and I think, I would recommend to pre-service teachers to try it out before you get into a habit of sort of picking on the negative. I would recommend picking on the positive.

Inara:

Changing your perspective on it.

Shannon:

My mentor told me on my very first prac, was for any sort of negative behaviour that you find yourself correcting, try and have five positives after the correction of the negative, so that you're flipping your mindset, because it's something you need to be really conscious of as a teacher as well with your students. That, 'Oh hey, like, I did sort of say you know why haven't you got your pencil out.' You need to then back up, five positives and try and switch your mindset as well.

Siobhan:

And proximity works as well.

Inara:

Oh, non-verbal.

Siobhan:

Sometimes you don't even have to say anything, you just sort of have to be standing.

Shannon:

Just a good shadow of yourself, next to a student.

Siobhan:

I think hovering there, and they're kind of like, 'Okay, why is Miss near me? I need to figure out why she's near me. Oh, that's right, because I'm probably not doing the right thing.' Like you, a lot of times you don't even have to say it. I've done other simple tactics like putting, writing an instruction on a Post-it note and coming down and silently placing it on their desk, just with what I'm expecting could be like, 'Great job, but you need to be focused on X/Y/Z.' That's another really good way to go about it because it is discreet, especially when the room is quiet.

Inara:

They're teenagers, you don't want to isolate them.

Siobhan:

Another thing, is literally just a simple little tap on the table.

Inara:

Yeah, I think what I learned really quickly is, well in the last 20 minutes we've been talking, I'm quite enthusiastic in the way that I speak but relying solely on your voice to control, not really, control is not the word that I love to use, but to facilitate a classroom, can be really exhausting. I like lost my voice within the first week of my prac. Yeah, I learned very, very quickly that you need to have established roles and routines well before, to kind of compensate having to use your voice. I remember Siobhan, the first time, yeah you had a really good routine that I picked up of having your books and your pens everything ready outside the classroom before they come in. That was a really good tip that I used on my second prac because immediately we were starting the lesson, that was your first instruction.

Siobhan:

There's no muck around at the start of the lesson.

Inara:

I'm not yelling at the top of my lungs to mark the role, it's already out, and that gave me an extra week of my voice until I lost it again.

Shannon:

And it's a similar tip for primary school. Once they are a little bit older, however you can teach your kindies, you can teach your infants, your Stage 1. I would have Classroomscreen up on the board, it's a wonderful free website. I'd have my instruction written up there, so like you need, English book, pen, like red pen, blue pen, etc., whatever materials they need.

Siobhan:

With the younger ones you don't even need to use words, you can use pictures.

Shannon:

You can absolutely use visual cues, but it was really good when you were sort of getting them into the routine of following those instructions, using your visual cues, using like things written up, I would have sounds as well so there would be a timer on so they would know how long they have to be on the floor so when they were close to the end of the timer they would start hearing that ticking they knew, 'Oh my gosh, I have to get a wriggle on. I have to be on the floor ready to start.' And then, once everyone was ready, had all their materials, nobody was stressed about finding anything. No one was sort of like off wandering trying to get a book or something like that. Everyone was ready to start the day together and then we'd hit start.

Siobhan:

I think as well, something that I learned on my prac, working at a school where it was bring your own device, so all the students had laptops. My mentor teacher, Mrs Barmakellis, shout out Mrs Barmakellis, one of my best mentor teachers that I've ever had, was like, 'Don't speak to them until their laptops are down, like you're giving instructions and they're not listening.' Like they're probably, let's be honest, they're probably playing snake or something like that on their laptop, so I would only ever give instructions and I would just say, 'Lids down,' and they would know like, 'Lids down,' and I wouldn't deliver the instruction until all the lids were down and I think it's, I think we should normalise being able to wait and wait for the expected behaviour and yeah silence.

Inara:

I think there's a misconception with teaching that you need to have an authoritative, demanding, very loud way of centering the class. But I think the most powerful kind of teacher that I saw was actually someone who was quite introverted and quiet. It's a Japanese languages teacher and she had a tactic of just, she stood up the front, she took a calming breath and she just kind of like, was like '5, 4, 3, 2, 1,' and I was like that's going to give me another two weeks of my voice back.

Siobhan:

Correct.

Shannon:

And that's what worked for her and her students and everyone is different, you know, and you do find, your sort of, your teacher voice and what you like and when you get out there and you do have you know a full teaching load, when you're not a conditional teacher anymore, you will sort of learn what works for you and your students because you'll have that opportunity to get to know them and you'll implement your classroom management and what you do in your first year with your classroom management is very different to what you do a few years in. So, you'll learn as well, but thank you so much Inara. I think we've got one more question for you.

Siobhan:

Maybe you could share some personal goals or aspirations that you have for yourself and your future in the teaching career?

Inara:

Well, I have a lot of like short-term and long-term goals. In the short term I think experiencing a casual teaching kind of role where I'm kind of in the brunt of it and I'm getting to kind of put myself out there in a way where I'm challenging myself to build skills that I'm not that strong in. That's something that is a huge goal of mine and I think long-term a huge goal of mine is to be able to teach in a community that isn't metro, so teaching in a completely different schooling environment where I'm able to kind of actually understand what community-based learning can look like, can be really powerful, but I also know that that's going to be a lot of seeking and accepting discomfort. So yeah, it's all a journey.

Siobhan:

It's where you grow.

Shannon:

It is, absolutely. Well, we look forward to seeing you take your journey out to regional, rural or remote New South Wales, to trial what life could be like in one of those beautiful New South Wales public schools. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Inara:

Thank you so much for having me, this is awesome, I can't thank you enough, Siobhan and Shannon, for taking the opportunity to talk to me. I'd never thought I'd be in a position to provide any advice, but if this can help.

Siobhan:

Nor did we.

Inara:

But if this can help then I'm happy and I can't wait to see more.

Shannon:

It's really good to hear from a pre-service teacher, to hear about like your views and perspective, and your experiences I suppose, because like we said, you know, we've been there but you're currently there, so it's really nice to have you here with us on the couch.

Inara:

Thank you, thank you so much.

Siobhan:

That's all we have time for today. We hope you enjoyed this episode, featuring Inara, and we hope to see you next time. Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning into the Teach NSW Podcast, where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @teachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching and keep making a difference. The Teach NSW Podcast is a podcast by the Teach NSW team from the New South Wales Department of Education.