Introduction

School leaders play a vital role in providing every student in New South Wales public schools with a great education and to the best start in life. They have a positive impact in classrooms and on their staff. They guide teacher development and engage their communities.

Here at the NSW Department of Education's School Leadership Institute, our mission is support for NSW public school leaders by providing world-class, evidence-informed leadership development programs and resources.

Our podcasts will explore the key issues and challenges of school leadership. Hosted by Joanne Jarvis, the director of the School Leadership Institute, tune in and listen to our guests and colleagues share their expertise, insights and wisdom on leading with purpose and impact. Welcome to our Leadership in Focus series.

Joanne Jarvis

Hello and welcome to episode 24 of the Leadership in Focus podcast series. I'm Joanne Jarvis and I'm the Executive Director of the NSW Department of Education's School Leadership Institute. I'm here at York Public School in Penrith, in Sydney's west, on Dharug country, on a really exciting milestone day for the school. This morning I had the good fortune to join principal Bilynda Robins, her staff and colleagues, and directors' educational leadership from across the Penrith network for the Foundation Day of a new Community of Practice, focused on inclusive and culturally aware education for Aboriginal students.

It was a privilege also to hear the Executive Director, Kay Rigas, speak with such passion about this wonderful initiative. This is the culmination of 7 years of hard work from Bilynda and her team. Bilynda was inspired to strengthen her school's focus on Aboriginal education after taking part in the School Leadership Institute's Aspiring Principal's Leadership Program. Bilynda, it's a real privilege to be here with you at your school on such an important day.

Bilynda Robins

Thank you Joanne, I'm so pleased you're here. I'm glad to be a part of this podcast.

Joanne

I'm thrilled that you're here as part of this podcast, because you are an alumni of our program, and that's very special to me. So Bilynda perhaps we could start with you telling us about York Public School, the students, the families, your community, and your role here.

Bilynda

Okay, so we've got 500 students here, 7 support classes. 13% of our students identify as Aboriginal background. And we've also got a growing EALD background of children coming in and a growing number up to 10% now, EALD background, which we never had before. So that's in the last few years.

Joanne

Wow. And your school in terms of the number of staff you have here?

Bilynda

There's 72 staff so there's a lot, a lot of SLSOs as well. There's about 45 teachers and the rest, are SLSOs, because we've got the support unit and yeah, it's a growing number.

Joanne

So certainly, what is a testimony to your leadership that the school is clearly thriving. The fact that the executive director was here this morning singing your praises, I think volumes about, you know, how well you have performed as a leader of such a large school too.

Bilynda

Yes. And it's been a long journey the last 7 years and specifically on Aboriginal education and our Jamison Learning Community, our 4 schools that were focusing on Aboriginal education. And today we grow to a Community of Practice because the influence that the the Jamison Learning community has had on the network as a whole.

Joanne

You were in the second ever cohort of what is now known as the Senior Leaders Aspiring Principals Leadership Program back in 2019. You went through a rigorous selection process to get into that program. And I know that by participating in that program, there was a profound impact on you, particularly in terms of your understanding of Aboriginal education and what you have consequently been able to do with that knowledge here at York Public School. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Bilynda

Well, yes, I think today wouldn't have actually happened unless I was a part of that program. Going into cohort 2, I was lucky enough to meet Doctor Shane Williams at Cronulla one day, and he, we spent the day with him and a lot of his passion came through to me. What his vision was for Aboriginal education and he mentioned a group of schools up the coast and how they'd been working together as a community schools. And it was the first time he'd ever seen it. And he could see the impact they were making, and he sort of, I think, gave us the confidence to go forward with the work because it was always such... people are scared in this area, of doing the wrong thing.

And he said, you know, if you do the wrong thing, you know, as long as you sort of own it and move forward with it, like that's the only way the work's going to get done. And he said, my dream would be to see community of schools out there with an Aboriginal education focus, because there's so much work to do.

So I came back to my principal at the time because I was a DP at this stage, and I didn't know I was going to be the principal at this stage. And I said, I think we should really get to work with the community schools and ask if the principals would have an Aboriginal lens on the community of schools.

So we got together and they all agreed that it was a great idea. So that's where it started. And we've come so far in 7 years. Different schools had a different focus when we started working together as well, and that really fast tracked the process, because one school would trial one thing, one school would trial another.

And then as time went on, we all became, I suppose, little masters of the practice that was going on at each school. And then we could swap without making all the mistakes that we'd made as a school.

So, for example, our school, we were looking at the Dharug language. So it was Tammy, the librarian's job to go out and find a course. And that was hard to find. Where are we going to find the course? So she went on lots of professional learning by herself. And then she found, Jasmine Seymour, connected with the Windsor Language Centre, went into the university, and now she's become proficient in speaking, to a certain level. She wouldn't say that she's a master herself, but she became very fluent in Dharug language. And then she was able to share that knowledge into the community of schools.

And then the, Penrith South, who was doing well with all the dancing and, you know, researching all that, then they would come forward with all their information. So instead of one person doing it alone, we all had our own little mission to do.

And then we'd come back as a community of schools and, you know, listening to what the community wanted. Because that was something that Dr Shane Williams said, you've got to go to the community and say, what do you want Aboriginal education in your schools to look like? And it wasn't just us beforehand. We were saying, this is how it should look, and listening to our community and all the work we had to do with that.

So, then we created sort of a K to12 curriculum, with the community of schools on what we were going to teach each year and what that would look, like listening to our community.

Joanne

It sounds like it was an incredibly organic process where what drove it was a really strong sense of moral purpose that you all brought to bear, as you worked together and what I'm also hearing is that there was a really strong sense of trust among you all, to be able to, you know, go forth, explore language or explore dance and then bring it together.

It's a really fine example of collaboration that's come from a space of wanting to do the very best. And I think if Shane was listening to this podcast, he would be very proud that he has had that impact on the on the approach that you took to make this possible.

So far, you've talked to me about the organic way that this community of schools has developed. And it's clear to me, just from what I've heard this morning, that it's already having a strong impact. You also talked about the importance of having strong relationships with your local high school. So, could you give me an example of why that has been so important?

Bilynda

So with the Jamison learning community, we were able to firstly with the structure of meeting twice a twice a term for two full days. There's a lot of information exchange that goes along with that. So one of the great examples is a couple of years ago now, the high school English teachers were mentioning how - this is as soon as we got the JLC together so actually it was probably 7 years ago. They said, you know, the English writing isn't the standard we would hope for. So when I fed that back to our Stage 3 AP, she said, wow, we're always above state in NAPLAN. We do so well, what's going on up there? So she said, can I go up and watch a lesson?

And then the teacher said, why don't you teach your lesson so we can actually see what the standard is at the end of Stage 3. So she went up there and taught a Year 7 class. It probably had half of York students in there, so she was able to go through a lesson and they all knew it. They'd been doing the structure of writing here the whole time.

The high school teacher was blown away with the expectations that she had of the kids, where she could see that they didn't have the expectation and that was part of the problem. She didn't really know the prior knowledge what they were coming to high school with. And then so now, you know, it's nothing for the high school to come over and watch a Year 6 lesson towards the end of the year, just for them to realise where the benchmark is, you know, so they take a clear benchmark into Year 7.

Joanne

And how courageous of those high school teachers to recognise the importance of that transition opportunity and the relationship that they can build with your Stage 3 teachers because I suspect, Year 7 students may be comfortable operating at a level lower than what is expected of them. And so having those high expectations we know in the research is absolutely critical, but having them as shared expectations among all staff is even more important.

It's a really fabulous example of the relationship that comes through from the community. And we've talked about the Year 6 or 7 example, have you got an example of what happens at the, you know, P t 2 end of your school?

Bilynda

Yes. Well, we do have a playgroup that has been going for 7 or 8 years now. So when we used the community of schools to have a look at that Aboriginal education lens, we were able to start the playgroup. And, you know, because we were making connections with all Aboriginal families, we were inviting them into our playgroup, which they hadn't been sort of associated with.

So they came into the playgroup and we've got about 40 or 50 students, well potential students in years to come, in our playgroup now every Friday morning for an hour and a half. But what happened there was we used that as an opportunity to get to know the students that we were going to, going to come to York in a couple of years.

And we got a speechie in who was very much like an NDIS expert. And so she was making connections with our families at the preschool, and a lot of the work was done for us with helping educate the parents on what's out there, because a lot of them didn't know, especially if that's their first child. And we were identifying speech issues or students that needed to maybe go to a paediatrician and get in early.

And that's really changed a lot of how our kindy cohort look. We employ speechie for two hours a week. So, Maddie's able to go in there and really liaise with the families and get to know the children. And it's made a world of difference in the kindy cohort for the following year.

Joanne

What have you noticed?

Bilynda

Well, if there's if we need to apply for funding, we can apply for funding early. We can get early intervention at other schools. Because sometimes the students aren't coming here, they might be able to go to another school. We can talk to a neighboring school saying, we've got this student coming. You might want to get them in early for an interview to help support this family.

But mostly, you know, we've, identifying children who have autism early, so they're not just coming into kindy straight away. And we're able to connect with our support unit and our teachers up there. So it's been great. And having solid relationships that are positive with these families before they come in on that first day of kindy.

Joanne

What a fabulous example of giving students the best start in life.

Bilynda

Yes, the playgroup's, I think such a key to us being successful in kindy.

Joanne

Yeah. Yep. Today you've expanded the Jamison Learning Community into the Penrith Yiyura Community of Practice. And that was launched this morning. And what I heard this morning, very clearly were three words that came out a lot. That students and their families and staff feel valued. They have a strong sense of connection to the school and to their schools and also, a strong sense of belonging.

So how have you achieved that? What has been the magic that has enabled that to happen?

Bilynda

I think knowing the community and investing in our community, making sure we, you know, it's not just ... it's the staff, the students and the parents, all of us coming together. But I think as well, seeking feedback on my practice constantly has been, a great vehicle for me. And I think I learned that in the SLI when you showed us the 360 feedback survey.

And although that was great when I first got started, now I need sort of quick bits of feedback to see how I'm going along the way. Because I'm not perfect. And I'm actually loving the NSW Educhat and an example just last year I put into NSW Educhat can you give me 5 questions to see how I'm going as a principal with my leadership?

And it's spat out 5 questions for me to give to parents and staff. And and I actually should have done the students, and I didn't but I'll do that this year. And I was able to send that through Sentral to all the parents. I just did a Google doc at Google Forms and when I and to the staff all anonymous and within 24 hours I looked the next morning, and I had 400 parents' responses. Because it's only 5 questions through Sentral. It wasn't a tedious, and I'd leave like an open comment. And that was really great to hear from parents. And you know, what can I do better from the staff as well.

And I just have that sort of temperature check. Am I doing okay? Am I on the money, to make sure everybody's happy, and I think you can only really do that if it's anonymous. So that's been really great in steering my directions. And, you know, so many times you're going on a gut instinct. But it's really great to have that feedback.

And I remember I sent my results to Kay Rugas and to Quaide Cooper my ED and my DEL because it was it's so easy to read. It's only five questions and it's feedback for them as well on how I'm going and being transparent. And look some of the parents' comments weren't nice, but 99% of them were, so I go off the 99%.

Joanne

When I was speaking to Kay Rigas the Executive Director this morning about you, and I said, you know, Bilynda was, you know, on the side of the road as I was driving into the car park, she said, she's there every morning. She greets every parent, every single morning. . Why do you do that? And what have you noticed about that?

Bilynda

Well, I didn't do it before Covid. But I found that parents, you know, will come and see me informally and give me a lot more feedback about what's going on. If they've got a problem. They all know I'm on the front gate every morning. And sometimes they don't want to make an appointment because they don't want to make a fuss, but they'll tell you something informally on the gate.

I found that the anxiety of our kids like, that's gone. We don't have any anxious kids. It's always a bit tough the first two weeks, the Kindy parents don't like me the first two weeks, but after that they can see the benefit. I greet them still every morning I'm on the gate, and I think it's such an important thing to do.

I didn't really sign up for 2.5 hours of gate duty when I thought I was going to be a principal. But it's beneficial to the whole school. And I think that I love that I know the parents and the kids, and sometimes it's really hard to get out of your office. At least I'm out for that half an hour of the day.

Joanne

It's an investment in the emotional bank account that you have with your whole community. And as you said, it pays dividends as well.

I'm going to take you back to today and the launch of this new professional community. It sounds like, you know, that your initial work 7 years ago evolved organically. But you've talked about its success coming from the relationships, but also, you talked about structures.

Now you've set up today and it's, you know, ready to go. What are the structures that you've put in place as a community of practice that are going to enable it to thrive and be sustained?

Bilynda

Okay. So when obviously we know that the Jamison Learning Community are ahead of the rest of our network of schools because we've got so much experience there. But what started happening was people started tapping into us, and then we realised that we had to go so far back on our journey to help them, which we were happy to do.

But we realised that everyone just has their own story in their own contexts. Everyone has to stay as their own community of schools, and we're putting forward that they meet twice a term for two full days, which I know is sometimes hard with funding. But one of those days we're going to meet once a term Friday, Week 5, as a community of practice.

So we're hoping that they're all going to come to York Public School, the whole of the Penrith network schools, and they'll work as their own community of practice, sorry, community of schools throughout part of the day. And then say for the last hour and a half to two hours, I've been talking with our director and Kay about, you know, is that enough time as a community of practice to come together as a network?

I don't know, like this is all going to, we're going to have to find out. And inviting them along the way. And we've got the Aboriginal education team here from Narimba. So like we're connecting people already that that are not necessarily connected other than just a PL here and there. So we're hoping that they'll come along to the community of practice as well because they've got such knowledge as well. They have helped the JLC along the way as well. So, yeah, we kind of don't know exactly how it's going to look. So today's a very organic day up there where they're all putting their opinions forward on what they think it should look like as each community of schools.

And and I think tonight's just about relationship building. And these are the people what we're going to be working with going forward. And, you know, it's really hard if principals change the Aboriginal representative because you need the years and years of knowledge build up for them to all interact with each other.

Joanne

And I also understand that each school will be able to contribute the needs of their context and and focus on small wins yet on the way and then you're sharing that. So it's this sense of from little things big things grow isn't it?

Bilynda

Yes. And I think having the JLC in the same area as the rest of the community of schools, everyone will be able to tap into their knowledge because you could see this morning there's a lot of knowledge with those teachers. So they're going to hopefully fast track and we won't make the mistakes that we've all made because we've made a lot of mistakes. A lot of, you know, a lot of PLs we shouldn't have gone on and just there's been so many things we shouldn't have done, but that's fine. We've got us to where we are today, so hopefully we can fast track them to get to the next, you know, their next goal probably sooner than what we did to tell you the truth.

Joanne

Well you might remember one of the sessions that I ran in those early days was, failing is learning until you get it right. So I think your failures are important steps to enable the organic nature of what you've done and the strong relationships that are evident to me as well.

I'm going to take you now back 7 years and, looking back, reflecting on the past that you've travelled to get to this point, what are the lessons you've learned about changing the way Aboriginal education is implemented in schools? Is there anything you would do differently knowing what you know now?

Bilynda

I think listening to the community is probably the most important and the relationships with the community. I think getting, we could have probably got the Community of Practice on board a lot earlier if I'd actually had spoken to other principals about what we were doing. We were kind of on our own as a community of schools, the Jamison Learning Community, and we were just going along.

I wasn't really sharing other with other principals, and especially if you get a change of DEL, getting them up to speed on what you're doing, like because you've got so many things to worry about as a principal as well. Like a lot of the time, it's hard to be putting Aboriginal education constantly on the agenda of every meeting. You know where I think I could have done that to be a bit better to, I suppose have influence on leadership, beyond my school.

Joanne

Sharpening the focus. But it's obvious to me we talk a lot in the School Leadership Institute about the importance of system leadership. You know, that idea that you're influencing the practices of colleagues beyond your school, you know, and deepening your impact, amplifying your impact and deepening your influence. And I'm seeing that that today, in the way that you have led your school and the influence you're having beyond your public school is really quite profound. And I really congratulate you on your leadership.

Bilynda

Thank you.

Joanne

Bilynda, could you talk to me a little bit about some of the programs that have evolved as a result of schools coming together and working as a Community of Practice?

Bilynda

Yes. Well, we've got the the dance groups. We've hired an Aboriginal Education Officer that has one day at Jamison High, one day here, one day at Penrith South. So we're able to share that resource and get the same person. And then, Sakala, who you met today, who's from Dubbo, she's got you know, that K to 12 perspective and she can hopefully keep those connections when kids go from 6 to 7, she's the familiar face up there. So definitely having a combined AEO of the community schools. I don't really think I've heard of that often either.

Joanne

That's fantastic.

Bilynda

Definitely the community barbecues, bringing them together. So schools aren't doing that in isolation, and we're doing that together, bringing families together that are going to be connected to high school. They're getting connected now at primary school, introducing each other. And because there's so many of them, I think we had about 65 families at our last barbecue at Jamison High, where I might have only if I do it by myself, I might have 5families because not many turn up. They don't want to turn up. So it's sort of, it's great that.

Joanne

The quantum of families have a stronger sense of connection with each other. I would imagine.

Bilynda

Yes. And that's encouraging them all to attend at the Jamison High School.

Joanne

And you've also got a language program.

Bilynda

Yes. So the dedication of the Jamison Learning Community, they have sought out different courses. And now we were able to teach the high school students how to speak Dharug, and then they come down to the primary schools and they're able to teach them and they're the Aboriginal students teaching our Aboriginal students. And so the connections are already there. So when these kids go to high school, they have a sense of belonging with these older peers. So that's great.

Joanne

It's fantastic. Thank you Bilynda, that's a great place to end what has been such an insightful and powerful conversation about inclusive and culturally responsive education for Aboriginal students, and for me to be able to see to witness first-hand the impact that you're having as a principal on your public school, a very proud principal indeed. So thank you for sharing your knowledge, your insights, and your perspective with us.

So much of what we've discussed today is embedded in the priorities of the plan for public education and what we are seeking to achieve at every student across NSW public schools. And I know our listeners will value the important perspectives you brought to this conversation, because I certainly have.

For our listeners, please follow the School Leadership Institute on X. Our handle is at NSW SLI. NSW Department of Education staff can also access our leadership resources through the department's website. Thank you for listening and I hope you'll join us again for our next episode.