Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast was recorded on the homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW Podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Shannon:

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast. Joining you again on the couch, myself, Shannon, and Siobhan, your co-host. We are back for another one and we are joined by Rosie today. Welcome.

Rosie:

Thank you for having me.

Shannon:

You're so welcome. We're thrilled to have you here. So, you are currently a EAL/D Educational Leader, but you have been teaching in an Intensive English Centre for about 13 years all up in the department?

Rosie:

Yeah, since 2011.

Shannon:

Wow, very exciting. Well, we are thrilled to have you here. For those listening at home who may not know what the acronym EAL/D stands for, because we love an acronym in the education space, could you elaborate a little bit on that?

Rosie:

Yeah, EAL/D stands for English as an Additional Language or Dialect. So, that recognises that there are students in New South Wales who learn English not just as a second language, but maybe their third or their fourth language. And it also includes students who speak English as a dialect, maybe from an Aboriginal language. So, EAL/D is a subset of Language Background Other Than English or LBOTE, sort of as a diversity group. And yeah.

Shannon:

Fantastic. Thank you. So, in your current role, you share best practice strategies with the wider staffing network. So we're really excited to have you here today to discuss, you know, the valuable roles that teachers that have a specialisation in English as an additional language or dialect bring to our profession because it's also important. So, thank you for joining us. Let's dive right in, Siobhan.

Siobhan:

Well, before we tap into all about English as an additional language or dialect, we want to get to know a little bit more about you with a few icebreakers. So I've got a couple of questions prepared for you. The first one is, what's a hobby you've always wanted to pick up but haven't done so yet?

Shannon:

Ooh.

Rosie:

Hm, that's a good question. I would really like to pick up something sort of useful, productive, like sewing or knitting.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And I have like a basic level of skill. Like I can make, sort of, quilts in squares only, but I'd like to be able to, you know, sew clothes for my kids, or you know, knit jumpers and things like that. I think that would be a nice hobby to have.

Siobhan:

Definitely. What about you Shannon?

Shannon:

Um, I feel like something really useful as well. Like maybe if, like, on the side I could like, do coding or something.

Siobhan:

Oh, I reckon you've got some coding experience from your primary school day.

Shannon:

I feel like that could be quite a, yeah, useful hobby. Just build a webpage on the side.

Siobhan:

I love that, I love that. I reckon mine would be more like, sports or fitness related, some sort of fitness-related hobby. I know currently the trend is running. So, I would like to jump onto the apps and start running.

Rosie:

I'm interested in that.

Siobhan:

Yeah, I did download one.

Shannon:

What about Teach Run Club?

Siobhan:

We could start a Teach NSW Run Club.

Shannon:

I mean, we could. I think it could develop from walking, potentially. Look, I'm not a runner, not a track star, no one. We could build up my stamina.

Siobhan:

I love it. What about this one? What are you currently reading, watching, or listening to?

Rosie:

I'm currently reading an Agatha Christie novel.

Siobhan:

Nice.

Rosie:

I love Agatha Christie and I have, like, been collecting her books since I was a teenager, and I recently went through my bookshelf and found the ones that I haven't read yet, so I just started a new one and it's really sort of old, crinkly paper. The book is basically falling apart, but it's good so far.

Siobhan:

Yeah, beautiful. It must have an incredible smell to it. That sounds really nerdy.

Rosie:

It does, it does. It smells great, yeah.

Siobhan:

Must have that beautiful smell.

Rosie:

It's a bit distracting.

Siobhan:

Yeah, love that. And what about, is there a teaching resource that you can't live without? If so, what is it?

Rosie:

Oh, yes.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Rosie:

A lot of the teaching resources that I love using at the IEC are from AMES, so the Adult Migrant Education, something.

Shannon:

That's okay.

Rosie:

And they produce a lot of books for, you know, learners of English. And there's one in particular called 'My Island Home', and it is a collection of stories from people who have moved to Australia. Sort of little vignette, sort of mini narrative or recount, sort of texts. And there are some really great activities in there that are really easily adaptable for students at the IEC. And I just, like, that's my go-to book whenever I have to fill in a lesson, or it can relate to anything. I've used it in geography, I've used it in history, but it's just perfect.

Shannon:

I love a multifaceted book like that. Like you can just, it's so adaptable to like, different content.

Rosie:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

They're, like, gold when you find them.

Rosie:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Well, thank you for answering those quick icebreakers. It's great to get to know more about you on a personal level. What about from a teaching level? Could you tell us a little bit about your journey through education and how you ended up being, becoming an EAL/D teacher?

Rosie:

Yeah, so, it's fairly straightforward. I started in uni. So, when I was in uni, we had the option in our fifth year to get an additional TESOL qualification on top of our main teaching subjects, and so I did that in my fifth year and I did a prac, and then I loved it. And I didn’t, I wasn't really fully aware of where it could take me, but I knew that that was where I sort of wanted to end up. And so, after a bit of casual teaching, I ended up doing a couple of days at an Intensive English Centre in south-western Sydney. And that turned into a temporary block, and then a temporary contract, and then I became permanent, and then I stayed there for 11 years.

Shannon:

Wow.

Rosie:

And it was really just such a remarkable place to be, to sort of hone my teaching practice in that really sort of safe learning environment, but also a really sort of innovative teaching environment. And then a couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to apply for the EAL/D Education Leader position. So I've taken on that role temporarily for now, to support schools across a network with very high EAL/D numbers. And so, now I work more teaching teachers about EAL/D.

Shannon:

Yeah, amazing. So, for me as a primary school teacher, I suppose working at, like, an Intensive English Centre, I don't really know a lot about what the day-to-day looks like. Could you sort of go into what it might look like, either a day or a week?

Rosie:

Yeah, it's interesting. A lot of people sort of don't know that IECs exist.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Mm.

Rosie:

Because we are a little bit hidden, but yeah. So, in terms of English centres, are for secondary age students who arrive with limited English language proficiency. And the idea is that they come to the Intensive English Centre for some intensive English across all KLAs. And then we support their transition into mainstream high school, about 3 or 4 terms later. And the day-to-day sort of role of a teacher at an IEC is very similar to a mainstream high school teacher role. So, we're all EAL/D specialist and KLA teachers. And so, for me, I taught English, history, and geography.

Shannon:

Mm-hmm.

Rosie:

The idea of the Intensive English Program is that we teach the English of each KLA. And so, my programs were based very explicitly around language in different types of texts, text structures, purpose, audience of texts, across different KLAs. And it would be different depending on the students in the classroom, depending on their backgrounds, whether they have a trauma background or disrupted education, or if they are maybe international students with a higher level of literacy in their first language. And that impacts the teaching and learning programs that we follow. And so, it would range from sort of really basic survival language, building confidence in oral language, and then all the way up to, you know, persuasive essay writing, speech giving, debating, all those sorts of things to prepare them for learning in mainstream.

Shannon:

Wonderful, fantastic.

Siobhan:

It's really great, because it shines a light on just the diversity of our system in terms of the settings that you can actually work in. So, the IEC being one type of specialist setting that we have across our 2,200 plus New South Wales public schools. So it's really great to see or perhaps, open people's minds up to the fact that these specialist settings exist. I'd be interested to hear if you feel that the role of an EAL/D teacher perhaps differs from the role of a mainstream teacher. Where does the ‘specialist’ element sort of come in, into that?

Rosie:

So, you know, in my experience in an IEC, it's a bit different for me, because we're all specialist teachers, so there is no one who stands out as a, having a special role because we're all EAL/D trained, and qualified, and experienced. But then an EAL/D teacher in a high school is in a slightly different position, because they might work in a smaller team to support a bigger school.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

So, for some schools, you know, there might be 5 or 6 EAL/D teachers, but a 1,000 students. And in certain parts of Sydney for example, 80 or 90% of those students could be EAL/D. And so, it's really important that those teachers are available to support the students but also importantly, to support the other teachers, because they can't be in the room all the time, and there needs to be awareness of the main teaching staff and how to support those students through effective teaching and programing, without the EAL/D specialist teacher actually physically being there in the room. But a lot of the role of the EAL/D teacher, in high school setting especially, but also primary, is collaboration. You know, effective co-teaching.

Shannon:

Yeah, it takes me back to my first year of teaching. In Term 2, I had a little girl arrive at my classroom door and she had come from overseas and she did not speak a word of English. And she had arrived, and I worked side by side with our EAL/D specialist who was at the school at the time, because we had quite a high percentage of students who were, you know, from a language background other than English. So, worked with her. I learned so much from her in my first year of teaching as well on how to support students, and just the phenomenal growth. I actually went to their graduation because that was the cohort, was graduating. And to see that little girl and how far she'd come, from her standing at my front door, was incredible.

Rosie:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah, to have that support at a school, it's like I learned so much as a ‘mainstream teacher’ per se, picked up tips and tricks and how to cater for her needs. And it was really valuable for my practice as well, to work with that teacher.

Siobhan:

Yeah, well, I also wanted to tap into the misconception that perhaps EAL/D is all ‘withdrawal’ or some specialist roles are about ‘withdrawal’, and what you were both just saying there is, in fact, it's mostly co-teaching and also preparing your mainstream teachers who might not have that specialisation to support your EAL/D learners, like what, exactly what Shannon was talking about. Can you touch a little bit about, on that?

Rosie:

Yeah, so, in primary schools, it's a little bit different because there's no such thing as an ‘IEC’ for primary age students.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And so, you do end up with students turning up at your classroom door who may have zero English.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And those students may be in, part of a withdrawal program, you know, one or 2 hours a day just to build their sort of confidence and survival language. It's also really important for their wellbeing to have the opportunity to be in that sort of smaller learning environment. But then once they're able to participate a bit more, you know, a bit more confidently in classroom learning, then the EAL/D teacher can be in the room as a co-teacher. And, you know, there are lots of different models of co-teaching. Sometimes, it ends up that the EAL/D teacher supports the EAL/D students within the main lesson.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

Or it could be that the EAL/D teacher and the classroom teacher work together in some sort of team- teaching or parallel-teaching arrangement. And whatever kind of arrangement works for them can be really effective to build, you know, the learning of the students. But as you said, it's about building the professional capacity of yourself as an educator and learning from each other.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Mm-hmm.

Siobhan:

Speaking of learning, can I clarify for my own learning, what ‘survival language’ is?

Rosie:

Yeah, sure. So, research tells us that when students start learning English, their oral language is the first language to develop and the language that they need first is survival language. We call it that because it's what they need to survive, how to ask for help, how to make friends, how to know where the bathrooms are, where the canteen is, how to catch a bus, all those sorts of things. And once they are confident in that sort of language, then they're able to build from there in terms of, you know, other vocabulary. So, it's really important that they have that language first so that they can make friends as well. Because, you know, it's a very isolating experience to not be able to speak the same language as the peers in the classroom.

Shannon:

Of course.

Rosie:

And so, if they're able to make friends, then that, you know, can really help with their wellbeing as well, and yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah. I mean, it's incredible when you think about our system, because over 300,000 of our students are identified as EAL/D learners. So, to think of like, the support that's there among EAL/D specialists and you in your educational leadership role now, what does it look like when you say you or, you know, your role in supporting networks of schools, what does that look like?

Rosie:

Well, it's different depending on the network. So, in my network, I work with 20 schools, and all of them have a majority of EAL/D learners, because we're in south-western Sydney. And my other colleagues work with networks with sort of smaller EAL/D cohorts, but still a great deal of need. And actually, you know, for those schools, the need is often higher because there is less professional knowledge amongst the school staff. Some of the schools that I work with, they've had, you know, historically very large LBOTE and EAL/D school populations, so they have very well-established school programs, very well-established professional learning programs, and the staff are incredibly knowledgeable. But there are other schools that I work with who have recently experienced really significant growth in their EAL/D numbers sort of all of a sudden, and those are the schools that are reaching out for support because they simply, you know, a gap in the professional knowledge. And sort of, part of my role is to support the leadership staff and the EAL/D team to fill that gap in professional learning, professional knowledge, in order to support the students. And it's interesting, because some schools see that change in demographic as an opportunity to really sort of embrace the changing school culture, and really make sure that it's embedded in their school vision and their whole school practice. And that has a really positive impact on the students' learning and wellbeing, and also on the community engagement.

Shannon:

Mm-hmm, absolutely.

Siobhan:

And what would you say is the real benefit to teachers getting to know about how to teach EAL/D learners? Well, you know, why should it be their business?

Rosie:

That's a great question. I would say that it's absolutely everybody's business, because if you have an EAL/D student in front of you, then you are an EAL/D teacher, regardless of your qualification. And it's your responsibility as a teacher to teach all your students and to make sure that they have equitable access to success and achievement within the curriculum. So, whatever kind of learning need they have or whatever kind of barriers they may face, it's your role as a primary, secondary, whatever kind of teacher you are, to make sure that you are able to support those learners. And so, in a school with high EAL/D population with, you know, a couple of EAL/D specialist teachers, it's really important that the school has a vision to support all the staff, to support all the students. And it starts from knowing your students, understanding their educational background, their learning background, their learning needs, and making sure that that information is made explicit in the, you know, the programming and the planning for assessment.

Shannon:

Yeah. I like how you've said that, like, getting to know your students. So, when a student enrols into one of our public school, that information is given to us by their families. You know, what the language may be that is spoken at home, for example. What does it look like then as a classroom teacher? Are there additional frameworks that you would be looking at when you do have a student who is identified as speaking another language other than English at home?

Rosie:

Yeah, so your first steps are to, as you say, speak to the family, work out their language background, their cultural background, what kind of experience they have of education, if any, and then you might assess them using, there are a number of different tools that we use, but the main one in New South Wales is the ACARA Learning Progressions, the EAL/D Learning Progressions. And they give us information on students' English language proficiency across the form load, so, reading, writing, speaking, and listening. And then once you have that assessment, you can gain more of an understanding of their characteristics as a learner, what their learning needs might be, how they might be behaving or participating in the classroom. And then you can use that information to guide your lesson planning or what kind of support you need to give to them. So, some students, particularly if they're beginning learning English, then their speaking and listening skills will be higher than their reading and writing. So that might guide, you know, which skills to focus on. But then for other students, they might be already quite well developed or have quite a high level of proficiency across all merge. They just need a little bit extra support to make the leap into using more academic language. And you're sort of engaging more with the content and the syllabus demand.

Shannon:

More in that consolidation phase, I suppose, of the Progressions. I found the Progressions really helpful as a teacher, even for, like, my observations, so what I was particularly looking out for.

Rosie:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And I would take strands of the Progressions and just add them to my program, you know, for my certain students that I was on the lookout for and sort of have that as like, my key focus as a teacher for that specific lesson. I found early on in my career that was really helpful, having that embedded, to be able to look for. And then obviously as I gained more experience with the Progressions, it was more of a fluid approach to my students and how I catered for them.

Rosie:

And some students, they can fall through the gaps. Particularly if they've come from, you know, a strong literacy educational background in their first language in their home country. They often appear to be doing quite well and engaging quite well with the syllabus content and the demands of the assessments. But they often just need a little bit of support with, as you say, consolidating, the use of academic language. Because, you know, the way that our curriculum is designed is they need to be able to demonstrate success in English.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And they may already have all that knowledge in their first language and, you know, be quite aware of the content and understand it quite well. They just need a bit of support in expressing their understanding.

Shannon:

Yeah. And a lot of, like, contextualising as well. And to me, like, it's just so incredible to have these little people in your class who can speak two languages. I'm like, 'This is crazy!'

Siobhan:

Or more.

Rosie:

Yeah, it's amazing.

Shannon:

Yeah! Or more, absolutely. I'm like, 'This is wild. I'm just proficient in English.'

Rosie:

Yeah exactly.

Shannon:

I was like, 'Do you understand how cool that is?'

Siobhan:

It's amazing. And like we were saying before, it's nearly 40% of the entire New South Wales public school student population who do have an EAL/D background. And I've been really fortunate to work in my secondary context alongside our EAL/D teacher. And I've really found that a lot of the strategies that she taught me actually ended up being really valuable for my other students as well. So I found that once I was pulling out or defining some key meta language that I perhaps, ignorantly assumed that the students may have known, my class lifted in its understanding and overall, their assessment results. So I'm interested to hear from you, Rosie, if you have some key strategies or proven effective methods that you would really recommend that teachers should be using in their classroom or to try out.

Rosie:

Yeah, well, one of the things that we say quite often is that EAL/D pedagogy is just good pedagogy.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Rosie:

And it's essential for EAL/D learners, but it's beneficial for everyone. And also, I think it's important to take a step back from, you know, the busy curriculum and the content of the lessons within the syllabus, and to take a step back and think about what the language and cultural demands are for EAL/D learners, and what they might find difficult.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

Because it will surprise you. As you say, you might take for granted that they understand what particular words or phrases mean, but also you might take for granted that they have an understanding of different cultural elements of a storybook or a KLA area. And so, having that understanding allows you to really reflect on what's important in the teaching and learning, and how you're going to sort of bridge the gap between what the students know and understand in their first language, and how they're going to be able to express it in English. And our EAL/D students, they know what they're doing, but they're just not able to do it in English yet.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And it's really important in our role as teachers to be able to scaffold that learning, and support them through sort of, you know, sequenced activities to build learning across different modes of English. So, one of the things that we talk about a lot in EAL/D is message abundancy, making sure that they have the information given to them in a written way, a spoken way, a visual way, so they have different ways of understanding a new concept, and they can make connections with what they already know in their first language and then apply it to their learning in the classroom.

Shannon:

Yeah. Thinking back to your time as a teacher at the Intensive English Centre, are there any sort of memories or students in particular that stand out to you?

Rosie:

Yeah, there are some students I think, you know, I'll never forget, and I'm sure you have the same experience. And there are many sort of heartwarming experiences with students at the Intensive English Centre. There was one boy in particular who, he was a refugee from Syria and he'd come through Jordan, and he came from an extremely highly-educated family, but his parents were unable to find work in Australia and he was having a really hard time. But over the 4 terms that he was with me in my English class, because in the Intensive English Centre, as an English class teacher, you see your students for 2 doubles a day. So you're almost like a home teacher, sort of a little bit like primary. You get to know them really well and they get to know you really well. And for this student in particular, his improvement was remarkable, but also his confidence and his happiness, because when he first arrived he was, yeah, not really enjoying learning, not really enjoying school. But, you know, as he developed that confidence in speaking English, making friends, and learning, he was able to succeed really well. And one of the things that I used to like to do at the IEC was when the students enrol, they do an initial assessment. Part of that involves a writing task. And then at the end of their state, the IEC, before they transition, they do an exit task, which is sent to the high school. And usually, the students don't get a mark on either of those writing tasks. But what I used to do was photocopy them side by side, and show them to the students and they were always so shocked at their own improvement.

Shannon:

Mm.

Rosie:

And it was really sort of validating for me as a teacher to know that, you know, I'd been involved in their journey, but also just a really beautiful moment to know that they could, you know, take pride in the success and know that even though, you know, mainstream high school is going to be a challenge for them, they've already demonstrated such improvement. And if they can continue on that journey then, you know, they'll go far.

Shannon:

Absolutely. The resilience is so profound as well, from our students.

Siobhan:

It sounds really rewarding. And it's so interesting to hear about how you are now taking and spreading that learning of your own, with people in your broader network. Could you tell us a little bit about sort of what building teacher capacity within your network looks like?

Rosie:

Well, it starts off with understanding what the teacher capacity is already. And their understanding of the school community and the EAL/D needs generally. And then working from there in terms of targeting professional learning, perhaps for beginning teachers. Or in some cases, I target the professional learning towards the leadership team, so working with APs and APCI so that then they can share that knowledge with their teams.

Shannon:

Mm-hmm.

Rosie:

And so, I also do sort of demonstration and observations, and work with teachers to adjust resources. One of the things that we've been doing a lot recently is modifying and enhancing sample units for the new curriculum in primary school. And that's a really rewarding experience, because, as I've said, it allows the teachers to take a step back and think more critically about what these resources can be, or how these resources can be used most effectively for EAL/D learners in the classroom.

Shannon:

So, speaking of resources, I imagine you've built quite a repertoire over the years, as we all do.

Rosie:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Good teachers love a teacher tool kit. What are some key resources that stand out for you, like must-haves that you couldn't live without to support your EAL/D learners?

Rosie:

Well, the actual, the main resource that I 100% could not live without is an SLSO. And unfortunately, I can't take them home with me.

Siobhan:

We wish.

Rosie:

Yeah, yeah,

Shannon:

Honestly.

Rosie:

But they are honestly the most valuable staff members in a school. And not just for supporting learning, but supporting the families and the communities, and supporting me as a teacher.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And I learned so much from them. And they're also so, sort of clued into what the students are talking about,

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And what their needs are. And then I can help support those needs in my conversations with the SLSO.

Siobhan:

So, if I were a beginning teacher and I'd never had the experience of working with an SLSO, how could I ensure that I was using them as a partner in the learning, to ensure that I was using them as a valuable tool?

Rosie:

Yeah, my best advice for working with an SLSO is to prepare them for the learning.

Shannon:

Yes.

Rosie:

And also to get their opinion. Because sometimes, if you plan a lesson and you go to the SLSO and you say, 'Hey, can you help me with this, please?' And they'll come to your class, and then afterwards, they'll say, 'That didn't work.' And you'll say, 'But I thought it was fine.' And it's really important that you have their perspective in the room, because they see things that you don't see. But also, it's really important, and you know, a matter of professional respect to make sure that you're sharing the lesson resources and the plan with them beforehand so that they're able to work with you effectively in the classroom.

Shannon:

Quick 10-minute chat prior to the lesson can make a profound difference in the classroom.

Rosie:

Absolutely, yep.

Shannon:

So, we've talked a little bit about the EAL/D Learning Progressions we mentioned before. Could you talk to me about what it looks like sort of navigating students' progress in an IEC, for example, versus what that might look like in a mainstream classroom once they have transitioned?

Rosie:

So, there are two main documents that we use in New South Wales public schools. One is the EAL/D Learning Progression phases, and the other is the ESL scales. So, when students enrol in the Intensive English Centre, we assess them against the scales. The scales are much more detailed, nuanced in their sort of differentiation between levels of language.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And they talk about pragmatic competence, cultural competence, different sort of ways of using language. So they're really detailed and specific and very useful for, in terms of English purposes. But once students transition from the IEC into a mainstream high school, they are more likely to be assessed against the EAL/D Learning Progressions, because the Progression document is designed for use by mainstream teachers, and it's the responsibility of all mainstream teachers to understand the document and use it for programming and reporting.

Shannon:

Mm.

Rosie:

So, it tends to be in high school that students who've transitioned from the IEC come to the high school, maybe at an emerging or developing phase. So there's beginning, emerging, developing, consolidating. But if a student has been through an Intensive English Program, they have likely completed the beginning phase, probably completed the emerging phase. It's not, you know, black and white. But generally, if they're in a mainstream school, then they're more likely to be at a developing or consolidating phase. In primary schools, there's no Intensive English for primary schools, so you do get students at the beginning phases. And they can arrive in our schools, you know, any time of year, any age, at any level. So that's partly the challenge, but it's really important that teachers are aware of the students in their class and what level they are on the phases.

Shannon:

Yep.

Rosie:

Because when you go into the phase document, it gives you actually, some advice about how to approach learning across different modes of English and how to integrate that into mainstream learning.

Shannon:

Yeah, and it's a wonderful way as well, to sort of articulate that Progression to our parents, as well of our students. Because a lot of the times, you know, this is a whole new space and place for them, potentially if they've just arrived in Australia. So I always found, as a teacher, the Learning Progressions were really helpful in that manner to be able to show the ‘where to next’ for our students as well. And it's very clear to understand as well, what they can do at home to support their child.

Rosie:

One of the main, you know, messages of the Progressions, but messages of EAL/D generally is that learning English takes time.

Shannon:

Of course.

Rosie:

And one of the difficulties that I found in reporting to parents is that quite often, they expect that if their students are, you know, learning English and they're in a New Arrivals Program or withdrawal program, that they're going to go through the levels very quickly. But that doesn't happen because it takes a while to become really, you know, competent and capable in English across all the different modes in an academic setting. So, for some students, it can take up to 10 years to progress through the Learning Progressions. You know, other students may do it more quickly, it just depends on their individual learning.

Siobhan:

Takes time for a native speaker, let alone, IES students, so.

Shannon:

If we really want to talk about English, ‘They're, their, and there.’

Siobhan:

Let alone grasping the ‘Aussie’.

Rosie:

Well, exactly. And that's the thing.

Siobhan:

Vernacular.

Rosie:

You have to remember that these students, they're learning English, but they're also learning in an English-speaking environment that is completely unfamiliar to them. And there are so many things that they just don't understand yet.

Shannon:

Mm.

Rosie:

I remember reading a book with a Year 5 class a couple of weeks ago, and it was about drought. But the students were from Thailand and they had no concept of ‘drought’. They didn't understand the idea that there could be no rain for a long period of time.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

And, you know, they had quite a lot of difficulty grasping the concepts of the book and the feelings of the characters and the sort of, you know, predicting what might happen in the text, because they just didn't have that cultural knowledge. And so, it's really important that we think about not just their learning needs, but also sort of their cultural learning needs.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Siobhan:

And we as teachers really have to challenge our preconceived idea of what we know and what we think they will know, and sort of tap into perhaps, giving the context behind a lot of these concepts that we take for granted in our understanding.

Shannon:

So, you know, working for the department, we have access to so many resources that are created by teachers for teachers, which is phenomenal. Is there sort of a go-to space and place for our EAL/D strategies that we can, or resources I should say, that teachers can access?

Rosie:

Yeah, so, the Multicultural Education website is the main space, and it has all the resources for EAL/D programs, also for multicultural education generally, and an anti-racism education. In terms of EAL/D specifically, there is a Microsoft Teams page, which is extremely active.

Shannon:

A Statewide Staffroom?

Rosie:

Statewide Staffroom, yep.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Rosie:

There's, you know, 3 or 4,000 people in the staffroom and all the advisers are in there too.

Shannon:

Wow.

Rosie:

And they have their fortnightly statewide staff meetings on different topics. Last term, we talked about transition, enrolment, numeracy, literacy, everything. And a lot of resources get shared on there, it's a really collaborative space. There's also a lot of resources available on the Universal Resources Hub.

Shannon:

Mm. We're big fans of that.

Rosie:

Yeah. And on the general Literacy and numeracy page on the department's website. So, a lot of the literacy and numeracy resources have been adapted with an EAL/D lens, and they're really useful, yeah.

Shannon:

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Siobhan:

Me too. Well, thank you, Rosie, for joining us today on the couch. I personally have found this to be a very insightful episode. It's been great to have you here as an expert in your field and sharing so generously, that knowledge with ourselves and our listeners. So, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Rosie:

Thank you for having me.

Siobhan:

Until next time, we will see you again for another episode of the Teach NSW Podcast. If you enjoyed this one, just like I did, share it with a friend or a colleague who you think will find it valuable. Take care!

Siobhan:

Bye!

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning in to the Teach NSW Podcast where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle, @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. This podcast is produced by the Teach NSW team from the NSW Department of Education.

[End Transcript]