Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast was recorded on the homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW Podcast, a podcast by teachers, for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Siobhan:

Welcome back to another episode of the Teach NSW Podcast. On this episode, we're very lucky to speak with Lauren. Lauren is the Chief Education Officer of the Teach NSW team, and has extensive experience as a primary school teacher and an assistant principal across New South Wales public schools. Lauren joins us on the couch today to talk about the ins and outs of starting your career with the NSW Department of Education. Welcome to the podcast, Lauren.

Lauren:

Thank you for having me.

Siobhan:

We’re excited to have you here.

Lauren:

Excited to be here.

Shannon:

Wonderful. Well, we love to get our guests comfortable with some icebreakers. You'd be very familiar with those from the classroom. The first one we have for you today is, what are you reading, watching, or viewing at the moment?

Lauren:

Lots of things. I decided to read, or consume I should say, 2 books per week for the entire year. At the moment, I am reading 'The Perfect Son' by Freida McFadden, and I am listening to 'The Silent Patient', which is, highly recommend.

Shannon:

Amazing. I actually just got a hard copy of 'The Silent Patient'. It's on my bedside table, ready to be cracked open. So I look forward to that. I've heard nothing but good reviews.

Siobhan:

Isn't it about this big?

Shannon:

No.

Siobhan:

Oh.

Shannon:

No, it's not that dense.

Siobhan:

Oh, okay, I might be sold. Yeah, okay.

Shannon:

Maybe I'll pass it on to you.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

After I finish.

Siobhan:

I love that.

Shannon:

We'll do a little circular book club. All right, the next one, if you could go to dinner with any influential person, dead or alive, who would it be?

Lauren:

My history nerd roots are going to show here, but I have been very interested by Tudor England and Anne Boleyn for a very long time. I've been to Hever Castle over in the UK, where she was kind of raised, and I just think she must have been a really incredible woman.

Shannon:

And then the influence and power that followed suit.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

What about you, Shannon?

Shannon:

It would be Beyonce.

Siobhan:

Yeah, okay.

Shannon:

To be quite honest to you. Because she does very little interviews, so I feel like tapping into that would be really cool to see a different side of her.

Siobhan:

What would you ask her?

Shannon:

Oh gosh. I don't know, I'd be so nervous. I'd really have to process my thoughts. But I think I'd like to hear about, because I recently watched her movie, the most recent one about the 'Renaissance' album, and just hearing about all, everything that goes into the production with the tour is quite fascinating. You know, a life I've never lived.

Siobhan:

We love that.

Shannon:

There's still time.

Siobhan:

Well, we hope you feel comfortable on the couch, Lauren. Even though that was fast, but we wanted to dive into a little bit about, I suppose who you are, how you came to be within this space, and the impact that it's having overall. So let's first start with, what does your role actually entail currently, but how did you get to this point?

Lauren:

Okay. So I currently lead the Teach NSW team. And I've been with the department for, I think about 10 years now. I took a bit of a convoluted, I suppose, journey into teaching. So it was my third degree. And prior to that, I'd kind of studied psychology and marketing. So yeah, quite a broad, I suppose, mix of things. So came into teaching a little bit later, did an MTeach, became a primary school teacher, and went through a couple of different schools, casual, temp, permanent, moved into an AP role. And then I saw an opportunity come up to be a non-school based teacher, or an SEO in the Teach NSW team, and started in that space. The manager of the team retired a couple of years later, and so I went through a comparative assessment process, and started leading the team. So here I am now.

Shannon:

So some of our listeners, pre-service teachers, or even beginning teachers, or people who are thinking about teaching and have been to university, they might be wondering, who is Teach NSW? And I know for myself, when I was at university and a pre-service teacher, I was at university, we had a lecture, and as part of that we went through this careers sort of pathway session. So I got to meet some of the Teach team. Can you sort of dive in a little bit about what is Teach NSW?

Lauren:

Absolutely. So Teach NSW has been around for about 20 years now. And it's very much a team that is focused around bringing the next generation of teachers into New South Wales public schools. So like you mentioned, you might've seen a member of the team or a few members of the team at a university. We often go out and give lectures around how to apply for your approval to teach, or how to find employment in New South Wales public schools. Even earlier than that, we go out to high schools. We do presentations around how to apply for a scholarship. We might go to careers expos or large community events like the Easter Show, open days, O-Weeks at universities. A lot of information on the website. We have social channels, we've got the podcast. And we're very much just focused on supporting the next generation of teachers into public education, but also ensuring that they are, I suppose, connected to the tools. So we don't necessarily create them ourselves, but we try to point and make those connections for early career, beginning teachers so that they're set up for success once they start teaching.

Siobhan:

Yeah, I think we like to call it almost like the ‘front door’ into the Department of Education.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

And they're your first sort of welcome, a taste of what the system is like. But also putting a face to the department is actually really helpful. So I would suppose yeah, publicly known as Teach NSW in that respect. But yeah, kind of getting that first link or connection to the profession is often really helpful for our pre-service teachers or students or people, career changers, who are considering joining the profession as well.

Shannon:

Well yeah, it's like you go to uni, you study your degree, and then what next? I see all these public schools around, I know that there's over 2,200 of them. How do I get myself into one of those? How do I work in one of those spaces? What does that look like? And I suppose that leads us into our next sort of question that we'd like to touch on. How can I experience teaching before I graduate with the department specifically? What's on offer as a pre-service teacher while I'm doing my degree, I'm not quite ready to apply for my approval to teach yet, what does that look like?

Lauren:

I think there are a few different options or pathways, I suppose, to experience teaching before you graduate. So I suppose really early on in your degree, we have programs like Beyond the Line, where you can join a 5-day study tour and we kind of go to different areas across New South Wales, regional, rural, and remote, to give you an insight into what it's like to teach in one of those rural kind of communities. We have Rural Professional Experience placements as well. So if you're a bit later in your degree and you've got your kind of, last practicum coming up, that 10-week kind of block usually, you can go out and go into a school that way. But they're obviously quite structured and similarly aligned to a practicum placement. So outside of that, we have the opportunity to apply for an SLSO type role. And I know, Shannon, you've worked as an SLSO prior to starting teaching.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Lauren:

Or whilst you were studying, I should say. I didn't, I was actually working in my old job whilst I was retraining and doing my MTeach. So, for me, it was very much around getting my approval to teach as soon as possible, and being able to start teaching on a casual basis. So you can apply for your approval to teach when you're in your last kind of 12 to 18 months, depending on which degree you're studying. And applying for that early and starting to work casually in a school is a really great opportunity to kind of experience it before.

Shannon:

Before going full time, yeah.

Lauren:

Yeah, absolutely.

Shannon:

Putting that theory into practice while you're still studying.

Siobhan:

Yeah. I would say the pre-service teachers listening to this episode now are excited, as we’ve said a few buzzwords.

Shannon:

'We can apply.'

Siobhan:

Applying for approval to teach, pre-service or practicum placements as well. Let's touch first on just a little bit of advice from you about how pre-service teachers can really ace their placements in our New South Wales public schools, and what they can do to get the best out of their placement experience.

Lauren:

Yeah, absolutely. I think when I reflect even on my own experiences, I didn't have necessarily as many pracs as somebody that was doing a Bachelor of Education would, because it's a compressed course. So I really had to think before I went into my practicum what I wanted to get out of it. And one that particularly stands out for me, I would always kind of look at the Australian Professional Standards ahead of time. And I suppose look at it from the perspective of, if I wanted to apply for a job, what's something that I would have difficulty, I suppose, speaking to or demonstrating competence in? Or, what am I not necessarily as confident or comfortable as I would like to be in? So one really specific example that I can think of is a prac that I was going to do, fell during a couple of kind of, big school events, but also parent-teacher interviews. So I had a conversation with my supervising teacher ahead of time and said, ‘Standard 5, Standard 7, looking at assessing and reporting on student learning, and then engaging with parents in the community.’ That's a perfect example. ‘Can I sit in on these parent-teacher interviews and kind of observe how you do this? Can we talk about how you prepare for these conversations?’ Because obviously that conversation with a parent is very different to a formal report that you might send out in Term 2 and Term 4. So, I think definitely thinking ahead of time about what it is that you want to get out of the prac, where you want to develop your confidence. Opportunities that will then allow you to speak to your competence when you're kind of applying for roles is a really good way to prepare for a prac.

Siobhan:

Certainly, I would say that's a really confident approach, and it's not one that you'll always nail on your first practicum placement. I would speak from having done an undergraduate degree. So different to you both studying a master's, you do get a bit more placement time. And so often that first placement is your chance to just figure out if, especially if it's your first time being in a school setting as the teacher from the other side of the desk, figure out what it is that you like and would like to see. And forming connections with people. Little things that aren't actually so little. Where are the bathrooms, where am I parking, where am I putting my lunch every day? Finding your feet in that way is really important. And then coming in with that confident approach potentially throughout that first placement or in later placements.

Lauren:

Yep.

Siobhan:

And I think it's about addressing your skill gaps in that sense. That's exactly what you're talking about there. For me, it was looking at embedding Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspectives into the classroom. So I really had to think about how I was going to gain that experience. So whether it be from observing other teachers and embedding that in the curriculum, sitting with a learning & support teacher and looking at a student's PLP, Personalised Learning Pathway, which Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander students have in New South Wales public schools. That's a critical choice that you are making when you're on your placement, because you need to be self-aware enough to say, okay, when it does come time to either going for an interview for a position, or actually sitting your approval to teach interview, which we'll touch on later, how could I address a question and how could I speak to that if I've not actually experienced it? So, I think it is your responsibility as a pre-service teacher to understand,

Shannon:

It's part of you developing into a professional.

Siobhan:

Yeah, where you are against those Graduate Standards, and how you can fill those skill gaps and gain as much experience as possible. So yeah, like you're saying, whether it's curriculum or knowing your students, or if it's a whole-school approach with parents and carers, my best piece of advice is just ask your supervising teacher, 'Can I do XYZ?' For me, I, as an English teacher, I show a lot of my pre-service teachers that I supervise our marking process and what pilot marking looks like, because I didn't necessarily experience that in my university studies because it's something that you get in a school, in your faculty. So definitely just echoing that sentiment of, address the skill gaps, and reach out to as many people as you can to see how they can help you.

Lauren:

What you brought up around making connections and asking the question is really, really valuable. So I suppose there's probably that conception sometimes that your supervising teacher is the person that you spend all of your practicum placement with. And for the most part that is true. But you might have release from face-to-face or free periods, and that's a really great opportunity to, I suppose, connect with other teachers across the school or get to observe other classrooms as well. So I think, yeah, that pre-planning piece and understanding what you might want to observe or get out of the prac, but even kind of earlier in the degree, is taking the opportunity to experience as many different classrooms and teaching styles as possible.

Siobhan:

Definitely.

Shannon:

Yeah, for sure. I remember because I did a master's as well, I only had 2 professional experiences. So, and both of them were actually in the 3 to 6 space, so I never really had the opportunity to be on an infants class. So when I was in my final prac, that was, I can't even remember how long it was, but it was a lengthy one in the end, my teacher was involved in PSSA. So I would go some weeks to PSSA, however I would go and spend some time in Kindergarten. And then really kindly, the Kindergarten teacher, she was so wonderful, she said, 'You've been coming a couple Fridays now, would you like to run a lesson?' So I was like, 'Absolutely.'

Siobhan:

'Yes, sign me up.'

Shannon:

'I'm ready.' So I prepared overnight, and sort of did, prepared my lesson and ran it with the students. And I was so thankful to her because she wrote me up my full feedback form as my supervising teacher would do as well. And that was just out of the kindness, giving back as well, I suppose, to the pre-service teacher community. But I was so grateful to have that opportunity because I landed in an infants role my first year of teaching. So, had I not had that small snippet on Kindergarten, it was nice to sort of be able to see where they're at in comparison to 3 to 6. Because it's vastly different. No matter what year group you have in primary school, they are just so vastly different.

Lauren:

Yep.

Siobhan:

Yeah, it does work the same way in high school too. You'll typically be allocated 7 to 10 classes, but you should be going and observing those senior classes. Because in my first year, I was given Year 12 Advanced English from the get go. So if I had not sat in and watched my head teacher teaching that exact same course, little did I know I was going to be teaching it the following year.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

It just makes you feel a bit more comfortable.

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

That reassurance, because once you do start your first year of teaching, that's your space and your

Shannon:

It helps you boost your confidence, I think.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And as you mentioned, it's nice to observe different teaching styles. We often talk, Siobhan and I, on episodes on and off the microphones, about your best professional learning is the teachers around you as well.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

And you're like a sponge. I feel I'm a sponge no matter what year of my career I'm in. Or I hope to be, lifelong learners and all that jazz. But especially in your early, early years, you just pick up so many tips and tricks that you may not have thought of looking at it like that, through that lens. And that's the cool thing about being part of a faculty or a whole school, you have so many people to lean on and learn from.

Lauren:

Yeah, and it could even be something around the way their classroom's set up.

Shannon:

Exactly.

Lauren:

For example, that just makes it really easy. So Kindergarten has my heart, I was a Kindergarten teacher for many years. I didn't do a practicum placement on Kindergarten. So yes, it was very much kind of figuring that out in my first year. But colour-coding.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Lauren:

‘Get the green book.’ Students might not necessarily know what their handwriting book is, Term 1 of Kindergarten. ‘You need your green book.’ And then they could go and self-serve, or coloured desks. ‘Everyone go to the yellow table now.’ And it was just a really easy way to kind of move students around the classroom or onto the next activity, that, yeah, I picked up just by walking around and seeing other classrooms.

Shannon:

Yeah, and that actually reminded me. So I went from teaching my own class of 30, and then I went into a team teaching scenario when I was on an opportunity class. And I remember I was really lucky because I was teaching with my AP at the time, but she was also my mentor for basically my whole career, which was really special to have that full circle. But we had 5 and 6 within the same room, and we used to have book boxes on top of their tote trays. And she would have mixed, sort of mixed grouping with the students and their tote trays. So the Year 5s and 6s would be all in together. It took me ages, I was like, 'Oh, but these are my Year 5s, their books should all be over here.' And she's like, 'Oh.' And I was like, 'Oh, why do you do it like that?' I'm trying to understand, I suppose, but I just was wracking my brains, couldn't understand, because I'd come from such a straightforward, this is my classroom, this is how we do things. And now, I was in this shared space. She was like, 'Oh well it's a really good opportunity for them to socialise together.' And I was like, 'Well that makes so much sense.'

Siobhan:

Genius.

Shannon:

Wow, of course. But it's not until you're in that situation and you learn from someone who's sort of gone through that together. And asking those questions is so important, otherwise I would've just been like, 'What, why? I'm just going to put all my books over here.' And I did start to see the sort of, the logic and how it would come to fruition, where they'd build those little relationships. You know, they'd have their little tote tray jokes.

Siobhan:

Conversations.

Shannon:

And sitting back and observing as a teacher was like, genius. And it's so simple, and it's something that you can put into place. And that social side of things, you don't necessarily always, it may not always be at the forefront when you're thinking of your lessons and your curriculum, et cetera. Such a simple thing.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

Learned from a colleague.

Siobhan:

For sure. And we touched on networking earlier, the importance of networking, whether it be as a pre-service teacher, early career, continued throughout your career. It's funny because it's so different and not a topic that's really spoken about in teaching. Because at our core we are people, you know,

Shannon:

People-focused, yeah.

Siobhan:

People-focused. And by having conversations with others, sharing little notes about your day or making those connections outside, to me in the teaching role, that feels really natural. But that's what our networking looks like. It's so different to other industries, commerce and adding to your LinkedIn profile. It looks completely different. But I'd love to touch on, how do you actually network in teaching, and who are we networking with?

Lauren:

And I think it can be very intimidating at first. So I remember on one of my pracs. I basically just was a shadow of a supervising teacher.

Shannon:

'Where are you going?'

Lauren:

'Can I come with you? I don't want to be left on my own.' So yeah, I absolutely, probably the first week, I was just, followed her around everywhere. 'Oh, we're going to the staffroom now? We're putting our lunch in the fridge, okay.'

Siobhan:

That's the natural default and feels comfortable, so we totally get that.

Lauren:

Absolutely. And I think that's okay if that's kind of where you start, because it is a new environment and it's adults. But ultimately, schools have lots of things happening outside of the classroom that really make a school community and a school culture. And so teachers are kind of very much used to interacting with teachers outside of their staffroom, I suppose if you're in a secondary setting, or your stage. So like you said, the teacher next door is the best kind of appeal. They're also a really great person to kind of turn to at the end of the day and say, ‘This happened.’ When you're reflecting on things that might have done, gone really well or a success that you might have had, or equally a lesson that didn't quite go to plan, being able to turn around and kind of have that conversation with the teacher next door and across your stage, I think is really helpful in terms of, I suppose, more networking. Being involved in whole-school initiatives or programs, things like the walkathon or the sports carnival, those kind of excursions or events, I suppose, that see teachers outside of their classroom environment and kind of leaning in for a shared purpose, is a really easy way to start forming, I suppose connections. And then equally we have a lot of resources within the department. So we have Statewide Staffrooms. That's a really non-threatening way, I suppose to network, it's not even a kind of face-to-face conversation if you're not at that point yet or are still developing your confidence. You can go online and have conversations with teachers from across the state that might be experiencing similar things or can provide advice for you. So they're probably key starting points.

Siobhan:

Yeah, definitely.

Shannon:

Great way to share resources.

Siobhan:

Yeah, and off the top of my head, I also think it's about introducing yourself to people within the school across many levels in terms of, okay, you've got your own high school context faculty. The first school I was at, we had shared staffrooms. So it was actually 4 or 5 faculties combined on one side of the school, then the others on the other side. So 2 shared staffrooms. Then another school, just the English faculty itself. So you might be put in a position where it's natural to, I can just hop over to PE and ask them how their day is and what role do I have for the swimming carnival. Please let it be the timekeeper. That's quite easy, yeah. But if you are in your own faculty, you do have to make the effort to reach out. And whether it's talking to your colleagues outside of the faculty at the morning assembly or after school or during, hopefully during professional learning when it's time to talk, not when you should be listening. But teachers are bad at that, aren't we? Those are really easy ways to form connections across the school. But equally, speaking with front office staff and SASS staff as well. So your SLSOs, your general assistants.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Shannon:

School administration.

Siobhan:

School administration offices and managers. Yeah, I think that's really important because they are what makes the school, and they're critical elements to the successful running of the school. And you, at some stage in your career, will have to ask them for something.

Shannon:

‘So it’s the printer. It’s not working. Ah, I know this is my third time here this week.’

Siobhan:

Correct, yes.

Shannon:

‘I do in fact need another lesson.’

Siobhan:

Yeah, or there's some sort of bird in my room and I would like it to be gone. That would be really helpful. The GA is your go-to for that. So, I think it's important to introduce yourself across the school, and ensure that you know those key figures, and are treating everyone with the same level of respect and kindness. Not just boxing yourself into one faculty. I think that's really important.

Lauren:

And go to the staffroom.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Lauren:

So it can be very tempting to kind of stay in the classroom to catch up on some marking. Or you might have a duty, and so you've been out, kind of in one area of the school and you want to go back and kind of eat lunch quickly. But going to the staffroom is a really great way to kind of have those informal conversations with teachers. Kind of check in to see how your day is going. So I made a point of always going down to the staffroom, whether it be at least once a day. So it could have been recess or lunch, it could be after school, whatever it might be. But making sure you get down there and have an opportunity to just kind of connect, and yeah, have a chat.

Shannon:

No, it's really true. And it was something that my first supervising teacher instilled in me, to go to the staffroom. And then when I was on my final prac, I don't know, some people may know this about me, I love to chat. So in my,

Siobhan:

No way.

Shannon:

Crazy, I know. Profound. But I was in the staffroom, just chit-chatting away to everyone and anyone who was there. And I happened to be chit-chatting to the principal. And just sort of, I don't know, just sharing my experiences. I actually, this is really bad to say, but I didn't actually realise I was chatting to the principal because this was my first week for my prac.

Siobhan:

Oh, this is your first placement.

Shannon:

This is my placement. And so after a couple weeks into my placement, she actually popped in to see a lesson and she said, 'I was really interested in what you were saying, Shannon. You were talking about how you wanted to use technology.' Who knows what I was saying at that time, but I was embedding technology. And so she came in to watch my lesson and she sort of pulled me aside towards the end of my prac. She said, 'Look, I don't have any temporary roles next year, however, there's a principal in my network that I know is looking for a teacher. Would you be happy for me to put your name forward?' And that was an informal networking situation where I was just at the, in the staffroom being myself. My professional self, talking about my lessons. But you never sort of know who you're chatting to, or everyone is very connected within their networks, but within their wider networks. And that's the whole sort of, I suppose exposure you get to the system. So I was lucky enough to have my name passed on, and then that's where I ended up, job came up at that school. And that's now my substantive school. So I went through a merit selection at that school. So you just never know where you're going to find yourself.

Lauren:

And it does happen, probably more than many people realise, because we do have, they're called these principal networks. So it's a cluster of maybe 20 schools that exist within this principal network. And they have a Director of Educational Leadership who kind of oversees that patch. And often, a principal within that principal network might say, 'I have a temporary role next year. I don't have anybody in mind for it.' And they'll put out a kind of EOI across the network. And so that, a similar thing happened. I had a position, but a school that I was teaching at casually the year before my temporary role was starting, they put out a call. And so there was absolutely an opportunity for any teachers who had been doing a placement or teaching casually to have, yeah, a role at a school nearby. So it's always a very good idea to be aware of what's happening across the network.

Siobhan:

Definitely, well let's talk about that now, because we're kind of having a nice little segue into employment opportunities. We should first touch on, for our pre-service teachers, how do you actually apply for approval to teach and start that process? Because many think that you can just jump into and apply for a role. But you must have your qualifications assessed at that point in time. So there is a process. I can tackle it now. Who's putting their hand up for this one?

Shannon:

Well, let's talk about when.

Siobhan:

Yeah, let's start with when. So if you're completing an undergraduate degree or an integrated initial teacher education degree, once you've completed 75%, and that's reflected on your transcript in, typically in credit points. Then you can apply for what's called your NESA accreditation. Now, if you're applying whilst you're still studying, you're applying for what's called Conditional accreditation. And think of it as on the condition that you will complete the remainder of your studies in a timeframe. If you're applying once you've, all is said and done and you've already graduated, your transcript is a full reflection of 100% of credit points achieved,

Shannon:

Yeah, if you’ve finalised your degree.

Siobhan:

Yes, then you'd be applying for Provisional accreditation. So a lot of what we'll talk about now is more in relation to those pre-service teachers who are still studying and are looking to jump into casual or temporary employment. Masters of Teaching students, I haven't forgotten about you. Yours is 50% completion of your degree, as reflected on your transcript as well. And again, applying for that NESA Conditional accreditation. So the department is a separate entity to NESA. NESA does oversee a lot of things to do with education, syllabus, content, teacher accreditation, which is what we're talking about here. So if you would like to teach in a New South Wales public school, you must have your NESA accreditation in order before you then jump over to apply for what's called approval to teach. Which?

Shannon:

So then you come over to the Department of Education and apply for your approval to teach, which is like another step to getting yourself in the door to a New South Wales public school. Once you have your approval to teach and they've sort of looked at a variety of your professional experience reports, your transcript, you'll sit a teacher suitability interview, and then you'll receive your interim approval to teach number.

Siobhan:

Exactly. And one thing you mentioned there was that interview component.

Shannon:

Mm.

Siobhan:

So just for those who aren't aware, yes you do sit a department interview to gain your approval to teach. What does this look like? So this is an online interview. In my day, it was face-to-face, but

Shannon:

We had to do face-to-face as well.

Siobhan:

Navigate through online learning times and things like that. So it's now an online interview, which you have an hour timeframe to sit. Typically a lot of pre-service teachers don't take the full hour, but you're welcome to use the full hour to answer the questions. The questions appear on the screen for you, and then you press record to give your answer. You only get one chance to record, as would be when speaking in a real interview. But there is a sort of mock question at the start to get you comfortable with the actual process, and what that looks like, and have time to fix your hair and things like that. But because it is a professional interview, I would certainly say you need to dress professionally, so the camera's capturing you from typically waist up or however your setup is. So please do wear your blazer there. But if there's trackies on the bottom, no one's going to know, right?

Shannon:

No.

Lauren:

Unless you’ve got a mirror behind you.

Shannon:

Yeah, that's very true.

Siobhan:

That's very true. But keep it professional. And the questions are directly related to the Australian Professional Standards for Teachers. And you'll benefit from using examples in your responses. So like we were saying on your practicum placements, this is why you need to address skill gaps.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Because you want to have as many examples of your practice as possible in relation to the Standards to succeed in that respect.

Lauren:

Definitely. And I think one thing about the approval to teach process, it kind of asks a few questions that you might be tempted to answer at a point in time, yet realistically it's not looking at your interim approval, it's looking for your full approval, which will come through once you finish the studies.

Siobhan:

Yes, exactly.

Lauren:

So, you know, it’ll ask questions about location preferences, for example. And we really recommend being as broad as possible, but also, I suppose as pragmatic. As far as you're willing to travel or able to travel. So if you're happy to move to Coonabarabran next week, absolutely, tick that in there. If for some reason that's not an option for you, think about what's a realistic kind of commute time for you. And then the other component is around whether or not you'd be in a position to kind of take full-time or permanent employment.

Siobhan:

Exactly.

Lauren:

And that may not be the case whilst you're still studying. But yes, if your intention is once you graduate, that you want to move into permanent full-time employment, tick that box. Because we can then start to, well not ‘we’, but the department can start to look at matching people to vacancies that may arise.

Shannon:

Yeah, and you can be matched to a vacancy through the Graduate Recruitment Program.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

Up to 12 months before you've actually graduated your degree.

Lauren:

And after. So I was a graduate that was identified for priority appointment, and I didn't realise. So you don't get a special certificate that says, 'Well done, we're going to give you a job ASAP.' So I started seeking my own employment, I started teaching casually because my course finished at the end of Term 3. So I got, I had casual opportunities in Term 4, and then I picked up a temporary role for the following year. And I started getting all of these emails coming through to my inbox, and it would say, 'There's a position at XYZ school. If you're interested, you've got kind of 24 to 48 hours to respond.' And I thought I couldn't possibly get an application together in 24 to 48 hours, so I was disregarding them. I didn't realise that that was one of the ways that the department contacts you to say, 'Hey, there's a position here. Please register your interest.' And it wasn't until my assistant principal, I was in the staffroom on one of the kind of communal computers, must have been having a bit of a nosier at what I was working on. And he said, 'Are you going to apply for that role?' And I said, 'No, I haven't got time.' I'm working on my program.' Or whatever I was doing at the time, preparing my lesson. And he actually offered, he said, 'I'll take your class for the afternoon. Stay here, work on your application, get that application in.' And sure enough, I applied. And I went for a little interview with the principal and 2 other members of the school community or the panel. And that was the graduate role that I moved into. So I had a permanent teaching position the year after. I didn't realise that that was how that happened, so much like you can get kind of early offers before you've even finished studying in that first kind of year, you can receive offers through there as well.

Siobhan:

Yeah, which as a grad, your early offers will likely come through via phone call, text message or emails. And typically it's just a ‘yes’, ‘no’, ‘I'm interested’ or ‘I'm not interested’. There's no application process.

Lauren:

Yeah, so they've streamlined the, the process in the past 10 years.

Siobhan:

But once you are in the system and have your full approval to teach, then that's when these sort of closed merit pools start to begin. And that's when you can be identified and put in an application as part of that. So grads, if you do get an offer, seriously consider it and do a bit of research on the school to see if it's a viable fit for you, and go from there.

Shannon:

And I like how you touched on research for a school, because that comes into play not only in your graduate role, but any sort of employment that you're going for. Whether you're filling out a temporary EOI, for example, or you're looking for a permanent teaching role, you'll have to fill out an application. A good place to start is always the school webpage. So looking at the school plan, the annual report, the strategic improvement plan, these are all documents that as a grad, as a pre-service teacher even, you're like, ‘Oh my goodness, what is this whole world?’ But as you start to seek and look for roles, you start to make those connections with the criteria that they have within the role description that they're looking for for that classroom teacher position. Start looking at their school plan. What are they doing in that school? Why are they looking for someone who has willingness to take the debating team, for example? That school might be thriving in the debating space, and it may be a real focus for their students. So it's good to sort of get an understanding and a deep dive into the culture and the context of the school as well. Because you want to put yourself as the classroom teacher in that role, and what's that going to look like if you are a member of that school. Like, ‘I'm Shannon and as a future classroom teacher at Parramatta Public School, this is what I bring to the table.’

Lauren:

And a really clever way, I suppose to kind of weave in that research through your application is you always have that first statement that kind of says approval to teach K to 6 or 7 to 12. And I remember the first time I started looking at an application, I thought, yes, like, tick. What do I put here? Yes I do. But what you can do is use that research that you've done on the school around their improvement plan, or strategic directions, or focus areas, whatever they might be labelled. If you have experience or an interest in, for example, coordinating school sport.

Siobhan:

The Walkathon.

Lauren:

The Walkathon, why not? It's an opportunity to kind of weave in experiences that you've had or skills that you bring to the table, because teachers bring a wealth of experience outside of their qualification into a school community. It's a way to kind of weave that in in a really clever way, I suppose.

Siobhan:

Certainly. So I'm a grad, and I've just, I've got my NESA Conditional accreditation and my department interim approval to teach. I've completed all my mandatory training, and I would like to start working as a casual or temporary teacher whilst I'm still studying. Where do I go?

Lauren:

Mm, lots of places you can go. Casual teaching, we recommend ClassCover. So it's an app that you can download on your phone. You can go on, you set up a profile. So you upload your mandatory training, documentation, et cetera, and you set up a profile. And you can request to connect with schools kind of near to you. Which is a far more convenient way than back in my day, when you would used to go and drop off

Siobhan:

Dropping your CV, yeah.

Lauren:

Your CV at every school.

Shannon:

Well that’s the same for me, we didn't have ClassCover.

Siobhan:

Which you still can do.

Lauren:

You absolutely still can do. Spend a couple of afternoons.

Shannon:

And you can tell them, 'I'm on ClassCover.'

Lauren:

Yeah, ‘Connect with me, please.’

Shannon:

Yes.

Lauren:

So, ClassCover is a great place to go, set up your profile, and then you'll just get text messages that kind of come through from ClassCover, saying there's a opportunity to teach at X school today. And you press the button and there you go, you're set and ready to go. So that's a really great way for casual work. Contacting your practicum schools.

Siobhan:

Yeah, and this is why networking is so important, right?

Shannon:

Absolutely. It's where I did all my casual days.

Lauren:

My first casual day was at a practicum, a school that I completed a practicum. And it wasn't my final one, it was one of my first ones. And I just remember how much pressure it kind of took off the day. I didn't need to think about which area of the playground is area 2 for my recess duty, or what the school behaviour system looked like, or reward system looked like. I could focus just really on the teaching. And figuring out, I knew where I was going because I understood the layout of the school.

Shannon:

It's a familiar space.

Lauren:

Absolutely, it's a really nice way to kind of ease into it. So contacting your supervising teacher or the principal of the schools that you've completed practising is a great way to start casually teaching as well. And then for temporary roles, the Teach team produce JobFeed every week. So JobFeed is an email that gets sent out every Wednesday. It's also on the website. And it lists all of the temporary positions that have been submitted through for the week. So it'll have a kind of, the school name, it'll have a start date, an end date, because a temporary role has an end date as opposed to a permanent role. And it'll say kind of ‘approval to teach X’ or ‘willingness to teach Y’.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Lauren:

So if it lists the approval, that is very much aligned with your NESA accreditation, and approval that comes through with your approval to teach, which codes you're approved. But if it's a willingness, for example, I'm a primary-approved teacher, I might have a willingness or ability to support students with additional learning needs. So I don't have a special ed qualification per se, but I have a willingness to move into that space. I can do professional learning, I have an understanding from my qualifications, but I'm willing to kind of learn and develop in that space. So there's an opportunity for you to apply there. Or it could be a generalist position that gets advertised. So you could be teaching across a number of KLAs in a school. So JobFeed is another great place. If you haven't already subscribed, subscribe

Siobhan:

Subscribe today.

Lauren:

To JobFeed.

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Lauren:

And then also, we have the Staff Noticeboard, which is again internal to the department. So you'll need your DoE login to access the Staff Noticeboard, but positions also get listed on there.

Shannon:

Yeah, fantastic. Jumping back to JobFeed, because I feel like as a pre-service teacher and as a graduate teacher, I was on there every Wednesday, waiting for the drop. But it was also, when I was in my permanent role, I used it as a source of what's coming up across the department as well, because there are articles within JobFeed

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

That like, I learned for my, well I signed my class up to the Game Changer Challenger through an article I read in JobFeed. So there's, I feel like there's opportunities as well for teachers to access professional development that's on there. Similar to Staff Noticeboard, it's just a nice little hub that you can get internal departmental information.

Lauren:

Definitely, and I think even looking at career progression opportunities, so it's not just teaching roles that are listed. There's assistant principal, head teacher, deputy, principal, non-school based teaching roles as well. So yeah, if you are thinking about your kind of next step in your teaching journey, what that might look like, it's really good to get an understanding of the kinds of questions that might come up through an EOI, for example, for a temporary role. But it also lists all of the permanent roles that are available,

Siobhan:

Which is great.

Lauren:

On ‘I Work for NSW’.

Siobhan:

Yeah, you're also encouraged to, like you were saying before, Lauren, some roles might just be listed as you have an approval to teach. So if you've gone through the process, regardless of whether you're primary trained, I'm English trained. If a role is just listing approval to teach, and a willingness to, that means the school is willing to bring in someone who may not have looked into that area but are willing to come into the school and teach in that area. It works the same way with casual teaching. So you can actually teach across the system. We have beautiful K to 12 schools as well, which you,

Shannon:

Our central schools.

Siobhan:

Yeah, as a casual teacher, you're able to work across the system, but I as a high school trained, would be able to do some casual days in primary, and vice versa. So if that actually is some, an aspect of flexibility that you're looking for in your career, you're not sort of, I hate to say pigeonholed, but pigeonholed into just one setting. You can actually try out across a multiple range of settings. And I've worked with some incredible primary school teachers in the high school that I'm at, and their skills are just so beneficial to me and my students. And I've learned so much from them about the early stage, and where those students are at, and where they might need that support.

Shannon:

Bridging that Stage 3 to Stage 4 gap as well.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Lauren:

Yes.

Siobhan:

So, I know for some primary school teachers, they might think it's a scary leap. Or as a high school teacher, I think it's a scary leap to jump into a Kindergarten class. But you never know until you try. So just know, for our listeners at home, the option is there and you can pursue that.

Lauren:

And it very much, I suppose develops your understanding of, from a primary perspective, where are my students going to? Like you said, the Stage 3 to 4 transition. Or where have my students kind of come from? And so it really helps to understand and develop, I suppose your practice as well when you've got a broader understanding of that continuum.

Shannon:

And even when you are at that Stage 3 level, you have students who are achieving mastery in the Stage 3 syllabus. So it's important to sort of look forward and know where they're going to.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Because you need to have an understanding of what's coming next for them in their journey as well. And how can you cater for their needs in that sense. And similarly with high school, looking back at the Stage 3 syllabus, ‘Oh okay, why are they having this challenge with this creative piece of writing,’ for example, ‘Okay, what are the foundational steps that they've come to me?’ ‘What should they have, where are the gaps, what can we do?’

Siobhan:

That's right.

Shannon:

So I've got my approval to teach, well I've got my NESA accreditation, I've got my approval to teach, I've downloaded ClassCover. Well, I've filled out my, on the website first. I've done my profile, then I've downloaded the app. Got my school I've matched, I've got a job.

Siobhan:

She's ready.

Shannon:

I'm ready for my first day casual teaching. I know what I did, but talk me through what you did and what would be your best advice for your first day as casual teacher.

Lauren:

Absolutely. I had a little casual teacher kit, so I was a little bit unsure, I suppose as to, ‘Should I be using the students’ books?’

Shannon:

Mm.

Lauren:

‘Should I be bringing worksheets in for them to do? Should I have an entire day's worth of activities planned? And if so, is it for early Stage One

Shannon:

For which stage?

Lauren:

Or for Stage 3?’ Yeah. So I almost had this kind of grab kit.

Shannon:

Yeah, grab and go.

Lauren:

That would have, yeah, a day's worth of learning for early Stage 1, Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3. Often teachers will leave things for you, particularly if it's a planned day. So sometimes you might get a casual call up, not because the teacher is unwell, it could be that they're having a stage planning day. And so all teachers on that stage are out planning.

Shannon:

Professional development.

Lauren:

Absolutely. So in those instances, things are usually left for you. But on the off chance that the teacher is unwell and nothing has been left, have some really trusted, go-to lessons. They're engaging, and you can kind of take them with you and roll them out. I also had little, a stamp in there so I could mark their work. Some little stickers if I was doing something on the day. Because you don't necessarily know what the school's reward system looks like either, or whether you'd be able to log into their ClassDojo account, for example, and to be able to follow that set structure. So having everything set up so you can be completely self-sufficient. Ensuring you get there at least half an hour ahead of time to connect with whoever's coordinating the casual at the school, to know kind of what the bell times are, if you have a duty that day. If you do have a duty, what is, where is the basketball area so that you're able to find it. Because there's not a large window, I suppose, of class time ending and then you moving to where you need to be supervising the students. Having a hat, having your own water bottle, bringing lunch. There's always some space in the staffroom for you.

Shannon:

I was always, yeah, I had a kit as well. So in the boot of my car I had an early Stage 1, Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3 folders. I was never not without a scratch and sniff sticker nearby.

Siobhan:

Those also work in high school.

Shannon:

They do. Honestly, they'd work on me some days.

Siobhan:

Yep, I'm ready for one.

Shannon:

To be quite honest. Yeah, I always had a whistle as well. So, I think I've spoken about it previously on episodes, the squistle.

Lauren:

Squistle?

Shannon:

A squeezy whistle so you don't actually have to put your mouth on it because

Lauren:

Very clever.

Shannon:

Honestly, I'm throwing my whistle. It's going in a bag, God knows where it's been. So a squistle. It's really good advice.

Siobhan:

Very true.

Shannon:

A hat's a really good one as well. And yeah, always arriving a little bit early, just so you can sort of like set yourself up. But now, being, having your department login, the Universal Resources Hub is such a really great workplace to go. Because sometimes I don't have a code for the printer or I might need something printed. And that's fine, the office ladies and gentlemen and whomever office people are there to support you and help you with that. But the Universal Resources Hub is a great way to have insight to ready-to-go resources that you can use when you're casual teaching.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

I also really liked the Read Alouds on YouTube. So if I wanted to do a particular storybook, if I didn't actually have the book or it was too little or something, or if I wanted to have a more of an inclusive experience, pop it up on the screen if they have an interactive whiteboard. Get your closed captions up as well. And that's a really great starting point for the morning even to take off with some literacy if there's not something left.

Siobhan:

Yeah, from a high school perspective, I think the kit is certainly sounds most prevalent in the primary setting. I'm sure it's not completely excluded out of the high school setting, but I would definitely be accessing the Universal Resources Hub with my login. You can actually filter based on stage, subject, and things like that, which is great. But I would also be bringing or packing potentially something that would assist you if you were to be placed on a class that had a prac component to it. So a PD/H/PE practicum, potentially you're in a timber or cooking room, something like that. So if I came for the day in a stiletto heel and was put on a Year 9 boys Oztag lesson, I'd probably be having a bad day. So, I think you need to consider, you need to consider

Shannon:

Tragic day.

Siobhan:

You need to consider as a casual that, yes, the role or the nature of the role is flexibility, and you need to be prepared to jump in in all situations. So I would consider.

Shannon:

And it can change as well. From when you receive a booking, for example, on ClassCover, it may say Year 3, such and such. But something could have happened that morning. Schools are wonderful places to learn about flexibility.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

Actually teaching as a career in its holistic, is flexibility.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And just being understanding that there may have been a number of changes for the executive that morning, or whoever's taking care of the casuals. And just being open and just happy to go with the flow. Because I think that really is part of casual teaching. You're there to support the needs of the students and the school at that time that you've been called in to do that.

Lauren:

Definitely.

Siobhan:

I worked with a wonderful teacher, Jan, was her name. She was retired and came back for casual days because she couldn't get enough. But I was just in awe of how dedicated she was to wanting to know the content for the lesson. Because as a secondary teacher, you come in for a casual day. Period one could be music, period 2 could be English, period 3 could be history, period 4 PD/H/PE, so on and so forth. So she, just to Lauren's point of coming in half an hour early or so, she would come in and just do a little bit of research about one part of the lesson. So you're not expected to be the master in the subject if you're coming in as a casual teacher and taking high school Year 11 mathematics. But she would look up just one aspect of the lesson so she had a bit of mastery around the concept or questions to ask the students. And that really does help as a casual, because the students don't see it as, 'Oh, okay, it's just Mrs is coming in and looking after us.' It's actually, 'My teacher is ready to engage me in learning and has modelled that for me.' They're interested in the lesson that is delivered.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

And you often get that same energy back from the students, because they can see that you're putting in.

Shannon:

They see that you care.

Siobhan:

Yeah, so many a time I'd field a question from Jan about Robert Frost poetry and some element because she was interested.

Shannon:

‘Two roads diverged in a yellow wood.’

Siobhan:

See, it sticks with you forever.

Shannon:

'And sorry I could not travel both.' My HSC is coming back.

Siobhan:

Sticks with you forever. But I just think that's a really important characteristic of our casual teachers, is that yes, they're flexible, and yes, they're willing to give it a go. And I think if you've got those 2 qualities in yourself, you'll make for an excellent casual teacher, so.

Shannon:

And it's crazy picking up on that from someone who has had their whole career, and now retired, come back. You can see her method, it's about, it comes back to that relationship building. Her small little snippet of taking care to learn what the students are doing at that point in time.

Lauren:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

As a student you'd feel so seen and valued in your classroom from your casual teacher, from your teacher that day.

Lauren:

I think there's that dual fold kind of benefit both around that continuity of student learning.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Lauren:

But then also the relationship building piece as well.

Shannon:

Yeah, for sure. All right, well thank you so much for joining us today, Lauren.

Lauren:

Thank you for having me.

Shannon:

It's been a pleasure to talk about all things Teach. We're obviously big fans. We've gone through Teach NSW ourselves as teachers. And now, on the other side of things, working behind the scenes with Teach NSW. I think it was really valuable to hear about all that Teach NSW does for pre-service teachers and current teachers as well. Is there, if we're looking to find Teach NSW, how to connect, what does that look like?

Lauren:

Several locations. So, you can go on the website, on the education.nsw.gov.au website, there's a Teach section. And so it kind of follows your natural progression, I suppose, through finding out about how to become a teacher, how to get your approval to teach, scholarship programs, retraining programs, reward programs for existing teachers. So anywhere through there. And it's got links to our email address as well. And then we also have social platforms. So we're on YouTube, we're on X, we're on Instagram, LinkedIn.

Shannon & Siobhan:

Facebook.

Siobhan:

We're everywhere.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Lauren:

@TeachNSW.

Shannon:

Where are we not, I like to say.

Lauren:

Absolutely. So even the email address, teachNSW@det.nsw.edu.au. So if you've got questions, thoughts, comments, feel free to send them through to us, and somebody from the team will be in touch.

Shannon:

I used to always say at the end of the day with my students, questions, queries, compliments, always welcome. No, sincerely, thank you. We've really enjoyed this conversation. It's been wonderful to see your journey, and talk about where you are now, and all the things happening in the space. So thank you so much.

Lauren:

Thank you.

Shannon:

And that's all for this episode. We hope you enjoy. Share it with a friend, share it with a colleague, share it with a pre-service teacher. And we'll see you next time for the next episode of the Teach NSW Podcast. Bye.

Siobhan:

Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning into the Teach NSW Podcast, where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like and subscribe, to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @teachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. This podcast is produced by the Teach NSW team from the NSW Department of Education.

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