Colin Campbell
Explicit teaching works. It absolutely works. By introducing the model and getting that consistency across the school, it's made it easier for both staff and students. That hinge question can make a really big difference and it may well at that particular time means that the staff member goes back a step. So we've been really determined to sort of stick with that explicit teaching model and it's working well for us.

Murat Dizdar
Hello colleagues. Welcome to the What Works Best 2025 vodcast series, where we get our top leaders from across NSW public schools to share their practical insights about how they're implementing the What Works Best practices to support our students across NSW with learning, engagement and wellbeing growth. Today we're talking exclusively about explicit teaching and I'm delighted to be joined by our fantastic Principal of Doonside Technology High School, in Colin Campbell. We're coming to you from the lands of the Dharug people in Western Sydney. We want to acknowledge their custodianship and their Elders past and present. Colin, great for you to be able to join us.

Colin Campbell
Thank you.

Murat Dizdar
Tell our viewers and listeners a little bit about Doonside Tech High.

Colin Campbell
So we're a comprehensive high school in Western Sydney. We've got about 730 enrolments. We've got about 22% Pacific Islander background at our school. We've got about 16% Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander. And to be honest, Murat, the approach that we take at our school is very much an individualised approach. The links and the relationships with our community is really, really important. And with the background of our students, it's very much... the approach is really around every student being known, valued and cared for. And some of the things I'll go into today sort of goes into that individualised approach.

Murat Dizdar
Okay. When I was out at the school, I could see explicit teaching in every classroom I walked into. That's no mean feat, not easy to achieve. Talk to us about how you've been able to achieve that, because that's a big challenge in education – to get the consistency of teaching and learning practice across classrooms.

Colin Campbell
Yeah, I think the real feel from our staff and within the school community is that staff wanted there to be a real predictable learning environment for our students. They wanted there to be that consistency across the school. So what we what we did was basically create a DTHS (Doonside Technology High School) explicit teaching model, which was really created on the foundation that when students walk into a classroom, there is going to be that predictability for them. And in terms of that model, it really started with the Connect phase. And when you, and I'm hoping you experienced this, I'm sure you did. When you walk into any classroom at our school, you'll be able to see visually, learning intentions up on the board for our students, a clear success criteria. It's really evident for the students what they're trying to achieve straight away into the class. The second part of that model really goes into the Enhance phase and that's very much around the teacher essentially introducing the concept or teaching the concepts that will be happening during that particular period. That then moves into the Consolidate phase, which is really around scaffolding for our students. It's an 'I do, you do, we do' type arrangement, and there's lots of activities that are sort of worked into that period. And the last phase of the model, which really works for us, that Evaluation phase, and what we really work into that is the formative assessment. And the formative assessment will happen at different stages during the lesson. But for example, it could be in the middle part of the lesson, whereby the staff member introduces a hinge question and it could be just a simple question to sort of gauge knowledge in the class. There's no point in continuing through a lesson with a group of students if everyone's confused. So that hinge question can make a really big difference, and it may well at that particular time mean that the staff member goes back a step, back to that Enhance phase. But by introducing the model and getting that consistency across the school, it's made it easier for both staff and students, but particularly the students, of course, walking into the room and knowing what the structure of the lesson's going to look like.

Murat Dizdar
That's no mean feat. I love the way you describe the predictability, particularly in the high school context. I'm going as a student from having primacy of my teacher at primary school to 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 teachers. How did you get buy-in from the staff to deliver on this predictability?

Colin Campbell
Yeah, look, I think it's really important that initially... look, there was that, I guess, automatic buy-in in the sense that the staff members really wanted that consistency across the school. They could see the benefit. They understand that when, you know, when we look at What Works Best and everything sort of ties in, you can't have one without the other. But they wanted that explicit teaching to be happening. They wanted a model that would work. But the way in which we've really done that is through, obviously professional learning that we've worked into our TPL (Teacher Professional Learning) calendar. We've placed a real emphasis on that. We've had professional learning communities, which we've created across the school and staff could actually... not only have that real voice in what they saw as being really important, but they could actually attend during built-in professional learning time, an opportunity to enhance their practise across – it may well be learning intention, success criteria, formative assessment. They joined a learning community. There's that great collaborative stuff that obviously happens, because very often in a high school environment, you know, staff can get caught just within their own faculty environment... The communities we've created is staff across different faculties working together. So that's been really, really powerful for us and that's really made it sustainable for us to continue with it.

Murat Dizdar
And the profession reminds me that teachers have always been experts at modelling practice. Modelling concepts, getting students to work through examples and then guiding them towards independent learning. But there is a thirst for a better knowledge on how to achieve those things effectively. Talk to how you're driving that at your school. Teachers are hungry to know what exemplary practice looks like in those spaces.

Colin Campbell
I think for us, the way in which we've embedded it, and because I think we have given it time as well, you know, we started this journey approximately 5 years ago. And what staff have ultimately seen by having that really structured approach in the classrooms: One, they've really, we've got banks of resources, we've got that sort of scaffolded opportunities for staff to work through. It's made things easier for them in the classroom in many ways. But engagement has significantly enhanced and what we've ultimately seen is that, you know, classrooms more settled. We've seen student outcomes really being enhanced. We've seen that the outcomes for us through value added in that NAPLAN (National Assessment Program – Literacy and Numeracy), through Check-in (assessments), our HSC (Higher School Certificate) data, we've seen significant improvements in that space. But the school environment, and when you walk around any classroom, it's settled, it's calm. Staff are happier. We've seen that through the Public School Survey (NSW Public Schools Surveys) data. We've seen that through our People Matters data (People Matter Employee Survey), that across the school, it's working for us. And I think in terms of sort of getting that buy-in and really sort of sticking to it, not just jumping from one thing to another. It's that real narrow and deep focus. And we've been really determined to sort of stick with that explicit teaching model and it's working well for us.

Murat Dizdar
And so a 5-year road … I'm going to jump out of order here and you're not going to mind …You know, I arrive as a new principal in my context and I find that they're looking for what you said: predictability of learning environment. What advice have you got for me, because I've got a school that is not 5 years down the track here. What have you learnt that I should take on board in leading my new school?

Colin Campbell
Like I said, I think you need to be able to be really deliberate in what you're trying to achieve. Explicit teaching works. It absolutely works. And I think it's important to get that staff buy-in, in terms of, you know, what you're trying to achieve in that space. But I think giving things time and that's something that we've been willing to do... The other thing that I just wanted to touch on there, which I think is really important, is we've got a great relationship with our partner primary schools. And I think that's a key focus – I would say to anyone that goes into a new school environment – create that great relationship, strong relationship with the partner primary schools and know your students that are coming into Year 7 before they get there. So for us, a huge thing has been our class profiles. And that's – I believe not only is it … it's what we should be doing in a sense, we should know our students well – but when our students arrive to us at Doonside Technology High school, we already know them. We know what their needs are. We know that where they're sitting in that space of whether it be NAPLAN, NCCD (Nationally Consistent Collection of Data) information, what their social backgrounds are, what they've experienced. And we come up with plans at the beginning of Year 7. Staff work together on that. Our learning and support team do an incredible job in that space. And we actually have those plans that go all the way through. Obviously it's a dynamic document, so we're continually updating them. And then that leads into the senior years whereby we create an individualised education plan for Year 11. And then we introduce the 'T' in year 12 where it's a transition plan. And for me, I think in terms of anyone going into a school environment, we want an individualised approach to the way we work with our students.

Murat Dizdar
What about this next area Colin? You know, when I was in the classroom teaching, I held on tightly to the syllabus, hard copy with my highlighter, and I'd tick off... You know, "I've taught them the 'J curve' in economics... I've done my part", but I've learned subsequently that checking for understanding is such an important part of the explicit teaching cycle and then revisiting down the track, something I wish I was across stronger when I was in the classroom. How are you doing that key element of explicit teaching at Doonside?

Colin Campbell
We have a bank of resources that we put together for staff when they go through the DTHS (Doonside Technology High School) explicit teaching model. Within that there are various formative assessment strategies that can be implemented during the class. And it can be a really, really simple thing just to see knowledge. But like I said, when we get to the end of each lesson and we have exit tickets when students leave the class around what they've achieved, what they feel like they've learnt. But during that particular lesson. And we... we've made that curriculum planning time where it's worked into every lesson, every program. It could be hinge questioning, it could be those questioning techniques. It could be a simple, you know, A, B, C, D multiple choice question at some point during the class, just to check for students’ knowledge … could be a thumbs up and thumbs down. There are so many different things that you can do, but the bank of resources that staff have got just means that when they are getting to the end of the period, students are not being left behind. We're getting that earlier and if they are being left behind and there's not that understanding and there's not been that response of people being with the teacher, so to speak. Then we go back a step in the model.

Murat Dizdar
Colin, if I've been with you for 5 years as a staff member, I've benefited from this professional development exposure, but what if I land this year with you? It's my first teaching appointment, I'm keen, energetic, but this is not my forte. How do you bring me up to speed?

Colin Campbell
Yeah, look, I think one of the things that we really speak about in our school is very much, I guess, that open classroom, collaborative nature. So we, within faculties, we always make sure that we have that, I guess, buddy system whereby we can obviously check in on colleagues. We arrange opportunities for our early career teachers, or new teachers, to be able to do classroom observations. We make sure they've got that time. But I think really if I'm a new staff member coming in, Murat, I think one of the things that we do really, really well is our induction process. So we make sure that when staff come into our school, we have fortnightly meetings. We've got a really, really clear structure we go through, but we make sure that our early career teachers or new teachers to the school learn the DTHS explicit teaching model. They know what the supports are that are available to them. We actually have videos of best practice that they can actually see. They get the opportunity to observe that. So we make sure that we put all those things in place.

Murat Dizdar
Awesome, powerful Colin, can I thank you. We're really proud to have you at the helm at Doonside Tech High, there. You and the team are kicking great goals and we want to thank you for that. For all of us, if you're looking For more information about Doonside Technology High School's approach to explicit teaching and to find the full suite of our What Works Best 2025 CESE (Centre for Education Statistics and Evaluation) resources – and a huge shout-out to the CESE team – you need to jump on the Department of Education website right now.

[End transcript]

Jenny Zagas
Of course, when we're talking about data, it's that why question, why are we going to collect data? It's not because “Jenny said” or it's a tick-a-box. It's a purposefully collecting that data to tell us something and to inform us. When we're talking about data, we're talking about wellbeing data, but also academic. In order to get that academic data, we need that wellbeing. And so the teachers have those conversations, short, sharp, it's not long hours, they look at the data, they analyse, they ask for support.

Murat Dizdar
Hello colleagues, it's Murat Dizdar here. Welcome to the What Works Best vodcast series, where we grab some of our fantastic leaders across NSW public schools and get them to share their practical insights about how they are implementing the What Works Best practices to support student learning, engagement and wellbeing. We do want to acknowledge the Baramadagal people, we're on their beautiful homelands and we do want to pay our respects to their custodianship and their Elders, past and present. I'm delighted to let you know that today we're going to focus on using data effectively to inform practice and I'm joined by my good colleague Jenny Zagas, who's the Principal of Lucas Gardens School. It's a fantastic school that I've visited a number of times in my career on Wangal Country in Inner West Sydney. Thanks for joining us, Jenny.

Jenny Zagas
Pleasure.

Murat Dizdar
Jenny, can you just tell us a little bit about the school for those that may not know Lucas Gardens School?

Jenny Zagas
So Lucas Gardens is a specialised setting and it supports students from Kindergarten to Year 12 who have a moderate to severe intellectual disability, many of whom have additional needs such as autism, physical disabilities, sensory impairment or complex health. There's 77 students in the school. K to 6 follow the K to 6 syllabus and the teachers make the curriculum, instructional and environmental adjustments to support the learning needs of the students, and 7 to 12 follow the Life Skills pattern of studies. We've got a very strong connection with community, both local and the wider community. And one of our big highlights for this year has been our cross-school partnerships with our local primary and high schools, where they come into our school and we go to them to support our HPGE (High Potential and Gifted Education) program.

Murat Dizdar
Let me zoom into the very purposeful approach your school has around collecting and using data. Tell us a little bit about the role that data plays in teaching and learning at Lucas Gardens School.

Jenny Zagas
So of course, when we're talking about data, it's that why question, why are we going to collect data? It's not because “Jenny said” or it's a tick-a-box. It's purposefully collecting that data to tell us something and to inform us. When we're talking about data, we're talking about wellbeing data, but also academic. In order to get that academic data we need that wellbeing. So some of our students may be dysregulated or may have some behavioural challenges. So when we're taking data around behaviour, we're looking at the... what the behaviour is telling us. So we may do an ABC [Antecedent, Behaviour, Consequences (recording)], we may do a scatter plot – that will tell us what tools and strategies we're going to use to reshape the behaviour. For example, you may have the same child running out of the classroom, but it may be two different strategies you're going to use. The child running out of the classroom may require... is having a sensory meltdown and requires noise-cancelling headphones or the child that wants to go out on the play equipment. So the behaviour mapping and the analysis of that, we're going to use different strategies. So it's very important. Then, because we've already fixed up that that behaviour – readiness to learn. We're now going into the teaching and learning. We're not going to get to the teaching and learning if we don't have students regulated, ready, in a state of alertness to learn. So going into the teaching and learning – especially in the area of literacy and numeracy – the students have their goals, they're in line with the Precursors and the Progressions. And so that's all tracked in the classroom. And there's lots of, you know, that informative assessment happening constantly in the classroom, how they're going, evaluating the progress, setting those goals, evaluating the impact of the teaching, next steps. So that ongoing, you know, reading of that data that we're collecting – and collecting it for a purpose, not just for the sake of collecting data.

Murat Dizdar
I love where you started and finished there. That this is not because "Jenny said", there's got to be the why around the data. I've got to see the benefit as a teacher. And this is to help me support the children in front of me with whatever they may be displaying and so that then I can get to the effective practice of the modifications to the curriculum and teaching and learning. You describe that really well. Let me take you to another area, because one of the things that you have really driven at Lucas Gardens School and achieved great success with, is this shared language and understanding amongst all staff when it comes to data, that is really important across the school. What does that mean? The shared language and understanding? And can you tell us how you built this whole-school consistency around using data to inform practice.

Jenny Zagas
Most important thing is it doesn't happen overnight. So it's a process. It started off with our evaluation of our SEF … SEF S-aS (School Excellence Framework Self-assessment Survey), and so the whole school, including our SLSOs (School Learning Support Officers) looking at the SEF S-aS and seeing where – and EV (external validation), really important – and seeing where we're at and where do we want to go. Looking at those excelling statements and saying, “that's where we want to go”. So that's that whole school approach of systems and processes. So that's really important and that's where we started. Our strategic direction 1 is around student growth and attainment, and all the students have a communication goal and that's part of their ILP (individual learning plan), which is designed by the speech therapist and it's in the classroom. So you can walk into a classroom, K to 12 and you can see those data walls up there. What the goal is... it's tracked, so that consistency of language, the colour coding. Those goals then are up in the meeting room upstairs where we all meet, our teaching staff and SAS (School Administrative and Support) staff. Their goals are up there and we can see that tracking of that goal. They have data talks with the deputy principal, with the assistant principals. The families love coming into the classroom to see those goals and they understand the goals on the table. Every child's communication system is on the table. So if you walk in, you will know this child is using Proloquo2Go or this child is using simple language [or other Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC) tools]. So that's that consistency across the school. And the same with our literacy and numeracy, using the Precursors and Progressions K to 12, the goals are up in the classroom. There's that data... consistency of data in all the classrooms. So a child can move from Class A to Class B and it's the same system. And that's that shared understanding, and teachers really appreciate that because in the past, everybody was doing their own little thing in the classroom and it wasn't that consistency. Now teachers really appreciate it, and even my expert, experienced teachers who – we go back 20 years ago, we didn’t have that, whereas now there’s that consistency, and I think it has to be driven … that buy-in of the staff, and that why question that we said – having that consistency.

Murat Dizdar
You should be so really proud of what you've been able to achieve here because I was just imagining... it really helps teachers, that consistency of practice from classroom to classroom as students transition. You know, they start some of them with us in Kindergarten, finish with us in Year 12. So I'm not necessarily going to have them from Kindergarten onwards. And so the systems you've got set up that you described so well are common in every classroom and that really does help our SLSOs and our teachers with our students. Let me take you to another topic... I'm a newly appointed teacher to your school, so I haven't had the benefit of all this work that you have done. How am I supported to build my capability and confidence around data collection and usage? Do you have a lot of people like me who are newly appointed?

Jenny Zagas
So we have a lot of beginning teachers, early career teachers, but also new to special education who have never done special ed. And so they walk in, they're willing, but of course you've got to set up systems to support them. So my big advantage is I have a very strong educational leadership and that includes me as a lead learner, and being in the classroom, you know, presenting PL (professional learning) around curriculum reform, and all those priorities with the department, that I am an active participant in that. And I think that's really important. That shows the staff, 'it matters because Jenny's here or the principal is here’. So it matters. But also having, as I said, the strong leadership team, shoulder-to-shoulder with AP, C&I (Assistant Principal, Curriculum and Instruction), we've got a very strong AP, C&I who works in the classroom, shoulder-to-shoulder with the teachers, helping them with curriculum, helping them with collecting data, analysing data. My 2 APs (Assistant Principals), they … one looks after primary, one looks after secondary, again, but also being available. And we know that there's no expectation, but if they want some additional support, they can ask for that and they're willing to do that, especially when you're collecting data and assessing. We have data talks and so every Week 8, everybody goes upstairs to the meeting room and in that meeting room are all the department's frameworks and it just links everything to what our job, why we're doing what we're doing, so all the department's priorities, What Works Best. And the SLSOs have time to go and understand all that because we need to understand that the SLSOs are not there just to babysit, they're there to support the teaching and learning. Yes, they're going to look after personal care and socialise in the playground for those social skills, but the majority of the time is... they're supporting with the implementation of teaching. And how do you upskill that? And so the teachers have those conversations, short, sharp, it's not long hours. They look at the data, they analyse, they ask for support. It can be 3 minutes once a week, where they have that information. We have our data entry. So Week 8, our learning is just for that. All the staff bring their laptops and they enter their data into Precursors and Progressions. They all bring their data sheets and that conversation starts and the expert teachers are supporting the early career teachers. So that Week 8 is really important for our beginning teachers because they feel supported, and then also with the support of the AP,C&I and having those learning walks. So, we've got scheduled learning walks and we have focus areas. So it could be, a focus might be around explicit teaching. And so the teachers will go in and share what they're doing with each other. So, it's that openness and transparency. It's not, "I don't want you coming into my classroom" or it... “we don't...” That's not the culture of Lucas Gardens. It's very much open and learning. And that comes from the principal too, being that learner, but also being able to go, yeah, into those classrooms. Learning walks has been a great initiative because like I said, you know, having those expert, experienced teachers and the beginning teachers going in there and doing that sharing.

Murat Dizdar
Jenny, how how fortunate are we to have you at the helm at Lucas Gardens? How long have you been leading the school?

Jenny Zagas
14 years.

Murat Dizdar
And I just want to reiterate, we're delighted that you're leading in that context, making such a profound difference. What advice do you have for me? I am a newly appointed special school principal. If you look back on your 14 years, what you've described today: consistency of practice across the school, the way that you're adjusting the curriculum, the support structures in place, how data is being used in a very productive and helpful way. I walk in on day one, and I'm impatient. What advice do you have for me, because the school has come a long way under your leadership. It wasn't like you're describing 14 years ago. Advice for me?

Jenny Zagas
Well to take it slow to… the buy-in of your staff. So you all… you being that visible leader, being approachable and having the staff to understand that we may not get things right, but this is the journey we're going on, about our students and the focus is about the students. So, about their learning. It's an educational facility. So, we need to be in line with the teaching and learning, but the support that we're going to put in place. So, having those personalised learning plans, inviting the parents and co-designing those, then how are we going to document those goals? So, it's a journey, but as long as they have that passion and commitment about ‘every child deserves…’, it's around that equity and excellence that every child deserves to be in a school. And you've got to change that mindset that it's not a hospital, it's not a rehab centre, it's an educational facility. And every child has the right to learn. And as your principal, I'm here on this journey with you and we're going to move and you can give them that, you know, where we want to be in, you know, a year's time. But using the SEF and looking at those excelling statements and saying ‘this is where we need to be because we are a school’.

Murat Dizdar
Jenny, can I thank you for making time for us today to engage with us about Lucas Garden's fantastic approach to using data to inform practice. It's very practical and insightful and it underscores the tremendous work happening at the school. Colleagues, for more information about Lucas Gardens School’s approach to using data to inform practice and to find the full suite of What Works Best resources, you need to jump on our NSW Department of Education website immediately.

[End transcript]

Erin Pike
We take a wrap-around approach to our wellbeing, so we look at students, staff, families and community. You could have the most amazing lesson, it could be the most engaging, bright, colourful lesson. If they're not ready to learn then you're not going to get the results. We've got a really strong transition program. When they come to school then they know our faces, they feel comfortable. Relationships to me... is absolutely why we're here. So if we've got strong relationships then our students would want to come to school as well.

Murat Dizdar
Welcome to the What Works Best vodcast series. This is where we grab fantastic leaders from across NSW public schools and we get them to share their practical insights about how they are implementing the What Work Best practices that support student learning, engagement and wellbeing. Today, we're going to zoom in on the topic of wellbeing, and I'm joined by our fantastic Principal of Temora Public School, in Erin Pike. Erin leads to great effect in the Riverina region on Wiradjuri Country. And I'm joining you from the Baramadagal people and I want to pay my respects to their custodianship and their Elders, past and present. I want to extend that respect to Aboriginal colleagues who join us in this series, and the homelands that you are joining us from. Erin, welcome on board. Thanks for making time for us. Give our audience, a little bit of a rundown on Temora Public School.

Erin Pike
Perfect. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm really excited to be able to share our wellbeing journey. Our school is located an hour north of Wagga, so we're in the Riverina region. As you said, we have 190 students with 9 classes. Our core values are community connections. We've got a strong sense of belonging and collaboration. A little fun fact about our school, we were built in 1880, so we're part of the gold rush era in Temora. Our town is rich in culture, we've got a great aviation and rural museum and we're a sporty and active community.

Murat Dizdar
Excellent. We're lucky to have you at the helm. Let's go to student wellbeing. That's the focus today. And as you know, Erin, it's a big focus of Our Plan for NSW Public Education right across this state. We want every student to be known, valued and cared for, and it's part of our DNA in public education, and we know that supporting student wellbeing requires a collaborative, whole-school, whole-community approach. You can't do it on your own. Tell us about some of the collaborative practices that you and the team are driving at Temora Public School so that you can support student wellbeing.

Erin Pike
So we take a wrap-around approach to our wellbeing. So we look at students, staff, families and community. So we're not a silo. We work outside the school gates. So our student voice is something that we pride ourself on. We have got a really active SRC (Student Representative Council). We value their ideas and it's not just valuing them, but it's acting upon what they're asking us to do and what they want to improve. It's taking on their feedback, listening to ideas of fundraising and then looking at other ideas that we can continue to improve. Whether it's, you know, playground upgrades, we've recently got a lovely grass area in our school, we've got new equipment and things like that, just because that's what the students wanted and something that we believe that we enacted in as well. With our staff, it's looking at how we can best support them. We ran a role with a wellbeing boost similar to an AP, C&I (Assistant Principal, Curriculum and Instruction), however it was AP, Wellbeing. So we looked at upskilling staff, upskilling our SLS OS (School Learning Support Officers), looking at classroom practices and making them consistent across the board. So not just in our own teaching, but K to 6, so every classroom looks the same. Students that needed additional support had extra toolkits, things like zones of regulation that are used in our classrooms, calm down corners and those sorts of things, just to upskill our staff in being able to manage students’ academic and wellbeing needs. Our families, we invite them into the school, so we've got parents as coaches. So we look at, you know, sporting opportunities, things that they're talented at, whether it's, you know, art, drawing, music, anything like that, that we can sort of harness their skills as well. Our Education Week, if you ever get a chance to come down for that, we make a big week of Education Week. And then with our community, it's the Community Centre. So we've got 2 lovely ladies, Anne and Heather from the Community Centre who come and work with our school. We have the targeted early intervention program, so they were doing one-on-one mentoring, small groups like Drumbeat programs and then whole-class activities as well. So it's a real wrap-around approach to wellbeing at our school.

Murat Dizdar
Really well described, lots of connection for students, staff capacity and investment there. Erin, I've been told that part of Temora's approach there to support student wellbeing, which is so important here, is that students are provided with opportunities to build relationships with their peers and teachers. So talk to us about how you empower and grow student capacity around relationships, which then helps on the wellbeing front.

Erin Pike
Yep, so we have a really strong student-centred leadership approach in our school. I think if we're doing what's right for our students, what they're, you know, voicing, then we're on the right track for success. An instance like that is our HPGE (High Potential and Gifted Education) opportunities for our students. A lot of that is student voice. So we've got things like debating, dance, chess, sport... we've got public speaking, lots of opportunities for our kids to shine. So it's not just shining within the classroom, it's shining outside as well. We've got a really strong transition program. So it started with the early learning centres. Myself and some Year 5 students visit there. We've started already, so we're trying to make those strong connections already with our students. So just when they come to school then they know our faces, they feel comfortable, they've got that really nice peer relationships already with their Year 5 buddies. We also have transitions between class group, so every year at the end of the year, they already know their class teachers, they go into their rooms, they know who's in their room, they know the teacher aides that are working in there. So it's that really predictable learning environment that kids are ready before they go on holidays. And I think that's really important. We work really closely with the other public schools. I'm very excited about the work that we do. So with Temora West and Temora High School, we've got a community of schools, so our executive team meet each term. We look at what we're doing, consistent practice, what we're doing that can strengthen public education in our town and what we can do in our school. And we have teachers in the community. We've got a really strong bond with, you know, sporting opportunities outside the school. So our teachers are coaches, we're on committees, you know, faces are out there. And I think we're really good role models for the students coming through. So yeah, we've got really strong opportunities for our students. And something that, you know, relationships to me is ... is absolutely why we're here. So if we've got strong relationships then our students would want to come to school as well.

Murat Dizdar
Awesome. Whole school approaches, even the importance of transition from early learning to Kindergarten. I love what you had to say about predictable learning environments and having the comfort even before you arrive. Can we go from whole school level, Erin, to strategies that teachers use in the classroom every single day to support student wellbeing?

Erin Pike
This is something that we've worked really hard on. It was started in our (Strategic Improvement Plan) (back then, now it’s SEP (School Excellence Plan) and we looked at consistent practices and processes. So anyone who knows me knows that I love a good flow chart, and a good, you know, consistent practice. And I think that's something that you need to have whole school as well as in your class. So in our processes, in our classroom, we looked at removing the grey. So we looked at our behaviour flow charts, our wellbeing systems. How can we make it so that children know exactly what is happening and when? So our behaviour processes in terms of, you know, … positives and our consequences are all the same across the school. So going into every classroom, it's exactly the same. We talked to our students about what they wanted to see in a wellbeing process. So what did they want to see? What behaviours did they think constituted either a minor or a major? We talked to families, we talked to staff, and we got input from everyone before we implemented that process. So that started in 2021. We looked at our zones of regulations. So things in our classroom that we can help teach children how to regulate. We understand they're going to have big feelings, they're going to have moments where they're feeling frustrated or sad or angry, and we need to teach them that those behaviours are okay. It's just what we do with them. So what can we do to support you in that area? Our classroom management systems, as I said, are all consistent, so going from one room to another is predictable for our students. We have wellbeing rewards days, so we celebrate expected behaviour and behaviour that is setting the scene of our school. We have high expectations for both our academics and our behaviour as well. So things like colour run, movie days, things like that, That's all paid for by the school so the kids can all access that. So we're looking at that equity as well. We also have programs, The Resilience Project we run with the Temora Shire Council. We've got a really strong bond with our council, which I think is a fantastic thing for our school and our town. So that's K to 6 that program's run. So gratitude, empathy and mindfulness we practice in our school and I think that's really changed the culture of our school. And as I said before, the Community Centre is something that, you know, we value their input and ... their support within our classroom as well. So we do have a staff handbook. So all of our processes and practices are consistent. So every classroom should be running the same in terms of wellbeing and academic needs of our students.

Murat Dizdar
Great strategies in the classroom, great celebration of really positive outcomes. Erin, I wonder if you'd talk to why invest in student wellbeing? You know, you'd have some say you've got to drive just the academics, you and I know as educators that would be very short sighted. You've got to invest in student wellbeing. What return do you see on the student engagement attendance, connection front when you do that?

Erin Pike
I think it's all about setting the conditions for learning. So you know, we're looking at equity for excellence now. And it's not just in academic, it's in our wellbeing supports as well. So if students aren't ready to learn, you could have the most amazing lesson, it could be the most engaging, you know, bright, colourful lesson. If they're not ready to learn, then you're not going to get the results anyway. So it's about setting those conditions for our learning to make sure our students are ready, to make sure that their wellbeing needs are catered for, you know, anything that we can do to make their transition into the classroom smooth. I think that's really important, you know, a sense of belonging. You know, when COVID struck, we dropped to 75%. And I think, you know, while that's not, you know, unexpected, I think it was something that we were still concerned about. We're above State, but to me, if a drop in sense of belonging ... it means that students are finding it really difficult to be here. So all of the work that we've put in now, we are at 96%.So we're well above State for sense of belonging, 95% of our students. So if we're looking at the NSW Public School Surveys, 95% of our students believe that their teachers have high expectations for their learning. So it's not just, you know, it's, it's how they feel about being here and how they feel about, you know, accessing the learning. And 97% said they set clear rules for their class. So it's how the kids are feeling in that classroom to be able to access the content. Our explicit teaching drive now is looking at the academics. So it's the same consistent ... it's the same routines. And that's what we're trying to achieve with our wellbeing needs as well. Our attendance rates are always high, so they're anywhere from 89 to about 93%. And our days lost to suspensions are limited. So you know, the kids are behaving, the kids want to be here. And I think that's our role in education and especially in public education. I think that's where we shine.

Murat Dizdar
They are amazing results that you were just rattling off to go from, I think you said a, a student sense of belonging 75 to 96 and not using COVID as an excuse. Because I know as a father in the system and as I travel through schools, you're not going to get kids there unless they feel connected, unless they feel adults are in their corner, unless they feel there's disciplined learning environment, unless they feel supported. And Temora Public School is absolutely smashing it out of the park with that data that you just read out. I wonder if you can take us to a final area to explore ... Erin, imagine I'm a newly appointed principal and I come into a new public school context and I really want to drive a school culture of supporting student wellbeing. But I'm impatient and I'm imagining you didn't achieve it on day one. It's been a sustained journey that you're still investing in. What advice do you have for me?

Erin Pike
Sure. I think it's really important that everyone needs to know that their context is totally different. Every school is different. You're walking in, you know, different staffing, different students, a different town, like cities, you know, rural, it's, it's extremely different. So I think that it's important that everybody recognises where they're at now on their journey. Where we were at, it was a 4-year journey. So, and like you said, we're still in there, it's still in our SEP, it's our Strategic Direction 3 where it's a really strategic approach to wellbeing. So you can't achieve it overnight. And I think it's really important that you realise that, our first year was engaging. So just looking at what do we do now, what do we do well, and then even better? If so, how can we be better? Don't throw it all out, just tweak what you have and look at what you can do to improve. It was like I said, a 4-year journey. So it's not something that will change overnight. And we didn't make massive changes every year, we just tweaked based on student, staff and family feedback. So consult, listen to what the student, staff and family are saying and then make those little adjustments along the way. And then, yeah, so we went through the Engage, Enact and Embed process and we're still embedding. I would still say that we are still looking at how can we make it even better.

Murat Dizdar
It's great advice. Erin, can I thank you for carving out some time for us today. It's so lovely to celebrate and hear of the wonderful work you and the team are doing there at Temora Public School, and it's certainly reflected in how students are responding in the student survey. Can we thank you for the work that you're leading around the culture on student wellbeing. The data and evidence is so critical and that's why we want to feature it in our What Works Best series. You cannot get top student outcomes without also investing in student wellbeing. Colleagues, for more information about Temora Public School's approach to supporting student wellbeing and to find the full suite of What Works Best resources, you need to jump on the NSW Department of Education website immediately.

[End transcript]

Tim Lloyd
Well, the first and most important thing is that teaching and learning's about high quality relationships – teacher-student, teacher-to-teacher, student-to-student. We run four 75-minute lessons, very few transitions. We as part of our mentor space, we have expert teachers opening their classrooms for beginning teachers to observe. So that, kids being aware of what the expectations are, there's nothing hidden, everything's out there in the open.

Murat Dizdar
Welcome to the What Works Best vodcast series. We're joining you from the lands of the Baramadagal people and we want to pay our respects to their custodianship and their Elders, past and present, Aboriginal colleagues who are watching us in this series, and the homelands that you are joining us from. This What Works Best vodcast series unearths our fantastic leaders from NSW public schools, who share their practical insights about how they are implementing the evidence base in their schools around the What Works Best practices that support student learning, engagement and wellbeing. Today I'm delighted to let you know that the focus will be on classroom management and we're joined by our good colleague Tim Lloyd, who has been the Principal of Plumpton High School for 12 years and counting, and has led the school to great effect. Welcome Tim and thanks for making time for us.

Tim Lloyd
Thanks a lot for having me, Murat. Lovely to be able to be involved in the discussion.

Murat Dizdar
I've visited Plumpton High School a number of times in my career. But for our audience, can you just give us a little bit of a rundown on the school, those that may not know the school?

Tim Lloyd
Sure, Murat. Look, Plumpton High School has approximately 1190 students. We come from 66 different cultural backgrounds – very diverse population, very aspirational now. We've spent a decade changing the culture of the school and as a result of that cultural shift in teaching and learning, student wellbeing, our students are thriving and flourishing and succeeding. Leaving school, approximately 97% of our kids are employed by March, following the HSC (Higher School Certificate).

Murat Dizdar
They're phenomenal outcomes, because pathways is a really important measure. Let me go to classroom management. It's a very large school, close to 1200 students. You've got a very big, diverse staff career trajectory – early career, experienced teachers. How are you getting consistent classroom expectations across the school?

Tim Lloyd
Well, the first and most important thing is that teaching and learning's about high quality relationships – teacher-student, teacher-to-teacher, student-to-student. And one of our expectations in terms of personal responsibility is looking out for your own wellbeing and supporting your peers with their wellbeing. And that's a responsibility that all of our kids fulfil and our teachers fulfil. And as a result, then linking that back to high quality teaching and learning. So we cater to the needs of the students in every classroom. We know that when kids walk into the room, the learning's going to be pitched at the right level. Straight away, that builds an opportunity. That notion of consistency you mentioned, critical. We have our evidence and research-based frameworks. They're taught explicitly to our teachers by experts. We then build our staff capacity so that our teachers can teach our newer teachers how those frameworks work. It's personal responsibility that your classroom runs in accordance with those frameworks. You support the colleague across the corridor and across the school. That is a personal responsibility of our staff. And we have … as a result of that, we have our own professional learning TV channel. We have our frameworks listed and available online. We have professional learning undertaken by our teacher mentors repeatedly. So things go in a cycle and people can access the professional learning they need either from a person face-to-face or through the frameworks, which are delivered online, that we have there constantly. So self-paced learning available when required.

Murat Dizdar
Is it a 5-period day? 6-period day?

Tim Lloyd
We run four, 75-minute lessons.

Murat Dizdar
Four, 75-minute lessons.

Murat Dizdar
So I'm a Year 9 student at your school, 4 periods, and I move from maths to science to geography to PE (physical education). What do I experience as this Year 9 child that I feel is consistent across those classrooms?

Tim Lloyd
First of all, you experience stability, because we don't move very often during the school day. We have 2 periods and then we have Lunch 1 which is 30 minutes. We have another single period, Lunch 2, period 4, and that's our day. So there's little ... very few transitions. So students are set. The lessons because they're 75 minutes, we have a multitude of different learning activities that take place over a 75-minute lesson. So that in itself enables kids to be settled, to be focused and to concentrate on the task at hand. That's delivered through our consistent teaching and learning frameworks. Every classroom has a learning map in it, which has learning intentions and success criteria for every lesson. That runs across consistently in every single lesson. 4 lessons a day, 5 days a week, Year 7 through to 12, supported by our wellbeing framework, which is also embedded in the curriculum.

Murat Dizdar
Okay, I spoke about this earlier. I want to zoom in on early career teachers. I know, like you do, that often early career teachers – and when I think about my first few years, this certainly rang true for me as well – they often identify classroom management as an area where they need more support. And from 2027, Tim, every education faculty in the country has mandated contentthey've got to deliver, and one of them is around classroom management. They've got to do that stronger. It is an area of need for beginning teachers. How are you supporting – because you've got a large number of early career teachers ...

Tim Lloyd
We do, we do.

Murat Dizdar
Is this true? Do they nominate classroom management as an area of need and then how you're supporting them with it?

Tim Lloyd
First of all, yes, they do nominate classroom management as an area of need. We run 2 teacher mentors – point 5 each – from different curriculum areas. We run a beginning teacher meeting so that we're not going beyond the one hour per week. That breaks up ... So those beginning teachers, the first one-to-2 years, they don't necessarily belong to one of our other teams, whether it be our school planning team ...

Murat Dizdar
So they go to their beginning teacher meetings for that particular session ... As a group?

Tim Lloyd
As a group, yes. And the classroom management is one of those focuses and we go through explicitly ... the teacher mentor delivers those frameworks consistently. They're then able to continually access that through our TV professional learning and our online learning. But they're explicitly delivered.

Murat Dizdar
So are they seeing footage of good classroom management?

Tim Lloyd
They can, yes, absolutely. We as part of our mentor space, we have teachers – expert teachers – opening their classrooms for beginning teachers to observe. Our teacher mentors open their classrooms for our beginning teachers to observe. We have our teacher mentors in our beginning teacher classrooms providing feedback around classroom management. They've then just got to master the art and the science of consistent application of it, along with learning ... their high quality-teaching and learning delivery.

Murat Dizdar
Okay, so you have invested using some of your SBAR (School Budget Allocation Report) funding in the teacher mentor space.

Tim Lloyd
Yes.

Murat Dizdar
You have these teacher mentors on class, but also release, so they can support these teachers. And you've chosen some exemplary teachers for this role.

Tim Lloyd
Yeah, absolutely. And, and those teachers are experienced and they're experienced right through to HSC-level teaching. And over the 12 years, those roles have been fulfilled by different people in that teacher mentor role. And it's one of the, the key components of that consistency across the school. We have our KLA (Key Learning Area) head teachers who also support our teachers in the classroom management space. But that consistency across the school comes out of that teacher mentor space, and the fact that these are the frameworks we use, we don't vary from that. That means that students, when they turn up to class – if you're in maths or science or English, the expectations are the same, and that's critical. We want our kids to arrive being set up for success because they know in their own mind, I go in here, I know what I've got to do and it's going to be the same all 4 periods of the day.

Murat Dizdar
Tim, tell us about some of the practical classroom management strategies. I want to hear about the practical things your staff implement on a day-to-day basis.

Tim Lloyd
Sure. Well, I mentioned earlier the learning map – every classroom …

Murat Dizdar
What's that?

Tim Lloyd
The learning map is basically projected onto every teacher's screen at the beginning of the lesson. That's the teachers plan for the lesson.

Murat Dizdar
Right.

Tim Lloyd
... Has learning intentions, success criteria ...

Murat Dizdar
Which is around the evidence-base of teaching?

Tim Lloyd
Correct. Absolutely. In every room, every lesson. So kids know from the beginning of the lesson what's going to take place, what's expected, what they need to do to gain their ticket to leave at the end of the lesson.

Murat Dizdar
Right.

Tim Lloyd
So that way...

Murat Dizdar
What do you mean ticket to leave?

Tim Lloyd
So that means that because ...

Murat Dizdar
The bell's rung.

Tim Lloyd
The bell's rung. It has. And sometimes the bell rings and you've got 30 minutes of first lunch. And you've might have spent 5 minutes having a yarn with your mate and you might need to stick around for that first 5 minutes of first lunch to complete the maths challenge or the science or the English paragraph you had to complete. So that ... kids being aware of what the expectations are, there's nothing hidden. Everything's out there in the open.

Murat Dizdar
Okay, so learning maps is one practical strategy. Any others?

Tim Lloyd
Yeah, absolutely. Look, if we've got students who really struggle, we have plans for individual students developed by our learning and support team. I have a faculty of primary-trained expert teachers in my school, called our Learning and Support Faculty.

Murat Dizdar
Why did you get primary teachers?

Tim Lloyd
Because a lot of our students come to high school still in stage 1, 2, and 3, in terms of their academic outcomes. I'm a high school teacher. I'm a high school method-trained teacher.

Murat Dizdar
Yeah.

Tim Lloyd
The beginning of the reading and writing process is not my strength. It's not meaning I can't teach it. But if I've got experts in that space, it enables me to work with those kids in a small group class situation ...

Murat Dizdar
In the classroom?

Tim Lloyd
In the classroom, absolutely. We've got a discrete class in Year 7, 8 and 9 where we've got kids who have well-below stage capacity. Our idea there is we work with those kids intensely in a smaller group of around 20 to 23 students.

Murat Dizdar
Yes.

Tim Lloyd
They matriculate from there into mainstream when we catch them up on different things.

Murat Dizdar
Do you use some of the tutoring money that we provide?

Tim Lloyd
We do. Yes, we do use some of our tutoring money for that, but we also fund some of that out of our RAM (Resource Allocation Model) or our SBAR to afford an additional teacher in our learning and support faculty to support those kids with their learning needs.

Murat Dizdar
Okay, I'm imagining that what you've been describing around the consistency of practice, the support of all staff, the language of expectation, that hasn't happened overnight. This has been a sustained road that you have taken. I'm a newly appointed principal out there. What is the one piece of advice you're going to give me to get to how you've built this school culture?

Tim Lloyd
Sure, Murat. I think the most important thing is to value what you find when you land, and that means getting to know the people. We're in education. It rises and falls on relationships and high-quality relationships. Watching and asking lots of questions and understanding how the school operates, from day one, that is so important and that takes, you know, that takes 6 months. And then looking at and working with people. One of the things that we do, everything we've created, we've done with groups of people. And when I say groups of people – teachers, students, other staff, parents.

Murat Dizdar
So you get good buy-in?

Tim Lloyd
We get buy-in.

Murat Dizdar
Okay. Still, I'm newly appointed.

Tim Lloyd
Sure.

Murat Dizdar
It was good advice. See what's good, work with people, take your time, form views. But I see things that are needing to be done better. I'm impatient.

Tim Lloyd
Yes, yes.

Murat Dizdar
I want to go into fix mode.

Tim Lloyd
Yep.

Murat Dizdar
How do I temper myself?

Tim Lloyd
Well, look, most ... tempering is important because you need to move people with you. You need to bring people on the journey. When we started, the first thing that we really looked at was student behaviour and management in that sort of first 12 months to understand why. If you don't understand why, you don't know how, or what you need to look at. The second thing we looked at – full curriculum review. We looked at curriculum – chapter and verse, interviewed most teachers, hundreds of students, parents. We had a review document produced. We then were able to work on that in the teaching and learning space, assessment, reporting for 4 years, on that. At the same time, our wellbeing framework we delivered and developed again built with the team, it's embedded in the curriculum. We've developed a scope and sequence, explicit program, lessons which if you don't have wellbeing and a high quality level of wellbeing, it's very difficult to focus on your learning. So with the teaching and learning and the wellbeing working in concert been a big benefit to bringing our kids forward.

Murat Dizdar
Tim, can I thank you for taking time out today to join us and unpack Plumpton High School's approach to classroom management. It's part of our What Works Best series, but broader than classroom management, your work that you've unpacked, with your staff that you're rightfully proud of around continuous school improvement. It's a phenomenal school in Western Sydney, kicking great goals. For more information about Plumpton High School's approach to classroom management and to find the full suite of What Works Best resources, you need to jump on our NSW Department of Education website.

[End transcript]

Alex Wrobel
We can make a difference every day when we work together. And if there's a strong climate of collaboration, our teachers get involved, they feel heard and they work hard to achieve the goals in their classroom, but also across the school. And it's not always going to work the first time. It's not always going to work the way you visualise it, but you should keep pursuing it because the goals that you can achieve and the buy-in of staff can pay large dividends in the end.

Murat Dizdar
Welcome to the What Works Best vodcast series. This is where we grab fantastic leaders from across NSW public schools and we get them to share their practical insights about how they are implementing the What Work Best practices that support student learning, engagement and well being. Today we're going to zoom in on the topic of collaboration and I'm delighted that we're being joined by our Principal, Alex Wrobel of Ashford Central School. Alex and the team there are located on Kwiambal Country. We want to recognise the custodians there as well as Aboriginal colleagues across the state joining us on this series. And I want to give a shout out to the Baramadagal people. I'm on their beautiful homelands and I want to pay my respects to their custodianship and their elders past and present. Alex, thanks for making time for us. Welcome to the series. Many of our colleagues would not have visited Ashford Central School. Tell us a little bit about the school that you and the team lead out there.

Alex Wrobel
Yeah, good morning Murat, and, and thank you for having me along to talk about our illustration of practice around the What Works Best document. So Ashford Central School, we're situated in the Northern Tablelands. We're approximately 70 kilometres south of the Queensland border and it's about 55 kilometres north of Inverell. We have approximately 130 enrolments from Kindergarten to Year 12 with just over 45% of our enrolments identifying as Aboriginal. Ashford township itself has approximately 500 residents who range from low-SES (socio-economic) families, blue collar workers through the farming families and we have a FOEI (Family Occupation and Education Index) of over 160. However, our students, they've still got a really positive outlook and I love working here and it makes me extremely proud to call myself the principal of Ashford Central School.

Murat Dizdar
Really well described, let me go to collaboration, Alex. When we talk collaboration, we're talking about our teachers, our support staff working towards a common goal and that is around accelerating growing students educational outcomes. Alex, we're all human and we bring different ideas, experiences and options to the table. Talk to us about how you and the team have supported teachers and leaders in the school to agree on areas to collaborate on.

Alex Wrobel
One of the things I really, really work hard with my team is that, you know, I try my best not to say things as an "I". I try to when talking to staff, talking to my leadership team, it's all about the "we" because we... I can't do it all on my own, nor is it all my own ideas. But we can make a difference every day when we work together. When we were doing the beginning work for our School Excellence Plan (SEP), before we began choosing any of our strategic directions or IPMs (Implementation and Progress Monitoring) and activities, we needed to gain an understanding of what our staff thought were the most important needs for our students, our staff, and our community. They were asked to write down 3 focus areas that they believe we could improve within the school to support our students and get further success from our school. We then shared and discussed the similarities between the responses and we really allowed time for staff to categorise their responses into like groups and prioritise them based on our needs for our community, our school and our staff. It had really strong engagement from all staff and there was really good quality and respectful debate on and negotiation that allowed for our staff to narrow the focus of where we needed to go. We further supported this beyond our staff with surveys from families and community stakeholder surveys and also by gaining student voice. From this we collaboratively formed our strategic directions within the School Excellence Plan. We developed implementation and progress monitoring measures and we were able to plan for achievable activities that staff felt they had really strong ownership over because they've been deeply embedded in the development process with those strong collaboration practices.

Murat Dizdar
Excellent. You describe taking staff on the journey, giving them significant input and ownership really powerfully and the evidence says that then you get great buy in and implementation with that. Alex, you know, like I do that in some professions and professionals, like if you look at doctors or lawyers, often they have the benefit of being able to watch their peers in action as part of their day-to-day work. Teachers, we've got to work a little bit harder to break down any potential siloing across stages or faculties. For teachers in regional, rural and remote schools, you need an even more intentional approach I've learned to enable collaboration in those particular settings. Tell us how you and the team there are creating opportunities for teachers to meaningfully collaborate.

Alex Wrobel
Yeah, for sure. And like you mentioned too, Murat, for smaller schools like ours, it can be very difficult in our secondary section of the school as we've got single teacher faculties with head teacher support that is out of area because we have Head Teacher, Secondary Studies and not specific to curriculum areas. That means that our teacher colleagues here at Ashford Central School may need to seek out support in different ways. One way that we do this is when at a particular point in time we had a focus on literacy across the school. t Principal, Curriculum and Instruction (AP, C&I) to support our teachers across secondary with the implementation of literacy outcomes within their programming. Another way that we do this is we support our teachers to become involved with networks around our school where staff can hear from curriculum experts and have robust discussions with colleagues from other schools.

Murat Dizdar
I'm interested now to hear from you a bit about how you create the conditions that support meaningful collaboration. I think you're referencing some of this. How have you created the culture? Because I don't imagine you achieve this just as an edict on day one of your leadership. It's been a sustained path. How have you been able to create this culture of collaboration?

Alex Wrobel
To build a culture of collaboration, we as an executive staff had to build strong relational trust between our teachers and our executive staff. We need to foster an environment that values the contribution of different perspectives. We won't always be able to support every person's perspective, but making sure they have felt heard is extremely important for them to have buy-in on the common goals. One of the most important considerations to think of when planning for strong collaboration is time. We need to ensure that there is a suitable amount of time allocated to ensure that the work can be completed. The allocation of specific tasks is critical to the effectiveness of collaboration.

Murat Dizdar
You've certainly bedded down conditions, structures, culture over a sustained period of time for collaboration, but talk to us about how you know that collaboration is taking place effectively.

Alex Wrobel
Another way that we support student learning through collaboration is creating supports for students on LST (Learning and Support Team) caseload and around our collection of NCCD (Nationally Consistent Collection of Data) data. Teachers collaboratively discuss and share resources, look at evidence-based research and capture data that is utilised for the collection of NCCD. These meetings are valued by staff because they have the opportunity to discuss and share what is working with students with additional needs, whether this be learning support or students identified as HPGE (High Potential and Gifted Education). In this scenario, I know that it's having an impact on teaching and learning because through the shared discussion, the resource sharing and building of resources that is occurring in the meeting, teachers are directly going in, altering and modifying their teaching and learning programs to cater for the ongoing need of their classes and students in that face-to-face collaborative environment. In other areas, it is visible by teacher ownership over sections of school planning, teaching and learning. And if there's a strong climate of collaboration, our teachers get involved, they feel heard and they work hard to achieve the goals in their classroom but also across the school.

Murat Dizdar
Alex, let me go to one final question. I'm a newly appointed principal and I want to drive strong professional teacher collaborative practice. The journey you've been on, you didn't achieve it overnight. What's the best piece of advice you have for me as a newly appointed principal to drive strong collaborative practice?

Alex Wrobel
So for our collaboration to be successful and part of ongoing practice, it needs to be really well planned. It needs to be really deliberate in what we're what we're trying to achieve as a principal or as an exec team to work with staff. And it needs to be really fostered and nurtured. It's not something like you said, Murat, just then. It's not something that you know, happened in 2026 and is happening successfully all the time. It's something that needs to be picked up and reworked and it's not always going to work the first time. It's not always going to work the way you visualise it. But you should keep pursuing it because the goals that you can achieve and the buy-in of staff can pay large dividends in the end.

Murat Dizdar
Alex, can we thank you for showcasing the wonderful work you and the team are leading there at Ashford Central School with your approach to collaboration. It's a really important feature of our What Works Best evidence base that we want to disseminate right across the system. For more information about Ashford Central School's approach to collaboration and to find the full suite of What Works Best resources, you need to jump on our NSW Department of Education website immediately.

[End transcript]

Rebecca McIntyre
High expectations at Coonamble is about setting students up for success.

Annette Thomson
We talk to the children about this, this is your brain and when it's calm like this, you're ready to learn. When it's like this, you're not so ready to learn. And when it's like this, you're certainly not ready to learn.

Rebecca McIntyre
It's like a three way conversation. The children are there, parents and carers, the teacher. And we focus on what the students can do and where to next.

Annette Thomson
Maliyan's Gamilaraay for 'eagle' because we want the children to soar. That's part of the high expectations.

Murat Dizdar
Hello, colleagues. It's Murat Dizdar here. Welcome to the What Works Best vodcast series. This is where we grab great leaders from across NSW public schools and we get them to share their practical insights about how they are implementing the What Works Best practices so that we can support every student in their learning, engagement and wellbeing. Today we're going to zoom in on high expectations and I'm delighted to be joined by my good colleagues, Annette Thomson, who's our Executive Principal at Coonamble Public School, and Rebecca McIntyre, who's our Assistant Principal, Curriculum and Instruction. We're joining you from the lands of the Baramadagal people and we want to collectively pay our respects to their custodianship, their Elders past and present, great Aboriginal colleagues who are joining us on this series, as well as the homelands that you're located on. We also want to give a shout out to the Wailwan and Gamilaraay people in northwestern NSW, where beautiful Coonamble Public School is located. Thanks for coming such a long way and joining us here at headquarters in Parramatta, Annette and Rebecca. Let me dive to you, Annette. And it's been a while since I've been to the school, I think 2018-2019, but I've got vivid and fond memories of the school. Tell our viewers about Coonamble Public School.

Annette Thomson
So Coonamble Public School is located in the northwest of NSW, as you said. So it's about 170 kilometres northwest of Dubbo. So Dubbo is our closest regional town. It's a rural setting. It's not a tiny school. We have about 220 students. It's transient, but we are in a community of high disadvantage and low socioeconomic and we have about between 89 and 92% Aboriginal students. So that's why we're part of the Connected Community Strategy. And I think that's really been a really important strategy for Coonamble. It actually gives us the, the key deliverables of the strategy guide us in how we can address the needs of Aboriginal students and their families, and connect with the families and the whole community to wrap around for education. And also to help to close some of those gaps for our Aboriginal students in their learning and their life outcomes as well. So we work really hard in Coonamble to, to make sure we deliver a really solid education. And yeah, that's great, great place to work.

Murat Dizdar
Rebecca, let me bring you in. I know you need no convincing because you're demonstrating this in your work every day, but the research is clear that high expectations is so critical, particularly if you're going to lift opportunity and not use disadvantage as a barrier. And so who you're working with in your school context, it's so underlyingly critical around learning and equity. Tell us about what you've been doing at Coonamble Public School to make high expectations for learning consistent right across the school.

Rebecca McIntyre
High expectations at Coonamble is about setting students up for success. So we have like a hub sort of design where we have hub teams. And so the APC&I (Assistant Principal, Curriculum and Instruction) works really closely with teachers during and we call it DAT time, which is data analysis time, and we meet during that time. When we look at students assessments, we look at data, we track progress, we adjust teaching and learning to cater for the students different, differing abilities. And then through that, we then look at the next steps. And in the next steps, we sort of make decisions around, you know, taking into consideration students PLPs (Personalised Learning Plans), students PLaSP (Personalised Learning and Support Planning), where they are at in their learning and having that high expectations and then having discussions around what that looks like and what we need to put in place. So for example, like in a 3/4 class, we had really reluctant writers and so what do we have to do? So we looked at explicit teaching and how we then could scaffold a writing match and a writing process to then give students that success where they then can achieve independence, confidence and build their stamina. And then from that, that gradual release of responsibility into them becoming supported writers through to independent writers. And from the data and looking at work samples as well as key, you know, things like the learning intention and success criteria, showing what successful looks like, showing what good looks like, and giving them the I suppose it's more like the tools to be able to achieve success. And so I feel that, you know, what it looks like at Coonamble Public School is supporting every student to have, feel that success and be successful. And then being able to talk to parents and talk to the students around that with their parents, to be able to have those conversations and show them what they can achieve and what they can do through the scaffolds that we provide.

Murat Dizdar
Let me take you to another area. I'm a big fan, big fan as a parent and former teacher of settled, orderly classrooms.

Annette Thomson
Yes.

Murat Dizdar
I've not met a student or a teacher or a parent who doesn't want settled, predictable, orderly structures in the classrooms. Have you been able to achieve that across the school? How are you driving?

Annette Thomson
I guess that was the first thing that when I first went there as a principal that we needed to address. And my personal mantra and it's become a school for accepted framework is that it's wellbeing for learning. But, so we have to have the learning happening, but the wellbeing has to be there to support students. And so we talk about being learning, learning ready or ready to learn. So that means that you, you go into the classroom with a cognitive frame mind, a frame of mind that is settled, that is ready to learn, that the front part of your brain is calm. We talk to the children about this, this is your brain. And when it's calm like this, you're ready to learn, when it's like this you're not so ready to learn. And when it's like this, you're certainly not ready to learn. So we actually bring the children in. We've done a lot of work in trauma-informed practice. We started with a PBL (Positive Behaviour for Learning) framework that was existing and we ramped that up with the department support. And now of course that's implicit in our behaviour strategy across the department. But we have kept many of those PBL framework aspects, but added in trauma-informed practice, social-emotional learning explicitly taught, not letting go of the learning, but preparing the children for that. So it's, it's my passion. You might be able to tell by my voice. But it is my passion because what I, what we saw when we introduced those wellbeing the Maliyan room. We, we talk about the Maliyan room and that's a centre in our school that we established in 2019. And it's not a classroom, it's a centre. And we have a part-time psychologist that we fund. We have a teacher, a wellbeing teacher, a wellbeing SLSO (School Learning Support Officer), another counsellor. She was an SLSO and she's training to be a counsellor. Then we have our AEOs (Aboriginal Education Officer) work out of there as well, our Aboriginal officers.

Murat Dizdar
So you've got the inter-speciality expertise in this room

Annette Thomson
In that room.

Murat Dizdar
The Maliyan room.

Annette Thomson
Maliyan.

Murat Dizdar
What happens in this room?

Annette Thomson
Maliyan's Gamilaraay for 'eagle', because we want the children to soar. That's part of the high expectations. And so what happens in there, and I've often tried to describe it Murat, but it's whatever the children need. So if they need to be fed, if they need a rest, if they need to have quiet, calm down time, if they need to have a chat with someone because they're having some social interaction problems, there's someone to do that and processes and activities in that room. We also have chickens and a fish farm and a bike program that we use in other parts of the school. We use it for a garden program and curriculum, but we also use it for calming. We have a wellbeing dog that comes on site at times according to the rules. But what happened with that, that's where we had a real change in this learning in that, that we brought the children who weren't ready to learn into that space with all the people wrapping around them, finding out what they need and then preparing them to go back to the classroom so that they could learn and be settled. And we had a lot of children out of class. And then through these processes, well, I could talk about it all day, I'm not going to. But through these processes, we were able to get the children settled, ready to learn, calm enough to go into their classroom and not be disruptive to the other children. So what the Maliyan did was let the other teacher, let the teachers keep teaching their class and all those wonderful learning experiences, but also work with the children who weren't ready, bring them into the classroom.

Murat Dizdar
Yeah. You describe that so well. So good to have that structural support in the school because you'll have different students who are struggling on a particular day. We've got to make sure we wrap around strong support, continue that learning. What about families, Rebecca? How are we working with families? Because we've described shared language with students and our staff. What about families? Because we know the best education happens when we've got the student, the staff, as well as the family connected in the same work we're trying to achieve. What's high expectations work looking like with families?

Rebecca McIntyre
Well, we, we do spend a lot of time engaging with families. It's about building trust and like respectful relationships with the, with the whole school community being families as well. We have, we, we try and be really active in our PLP meetings. So we actually had them last week, which were a great success again. We invite families in, and this year we had open classrooms, prior to the PLPs. We had 51 families out of 220 students with families having multiple children within their family.

Murat Dizdar
Yes.

Rebecca McIntyre
And then we have like a carousel where parents go around and they check in with the teacher and they, you know, it's like a meet and greet, but it's also completing PLPs and also PLaSP for students. And we offer a barbecue and it's a great afternoon. The kids play. It's a really beautiful community event. So we do that in term 1. And then in terms 2 and 4, we actually have our learning report meetings. And so we have 20, sorry, we have 71% of families engage in the learning report meetings.

Murat Dizdar
Wow.

Rebecca McIntyre
And what you know, from a disadvantaged community, really, we really do. And it's because it's really, it's like a three way conversation. The children are there, parents and carers, the teacher. And we focus on what the students can do and where to next, not where they are. We talk about where they're at and we show what at grade looks like. However, we focus on what we're going to do for their child and, and, you know, developing them further at those learning report meetings. We, we timetable it during the school day. It's lovely to see parents in the school and they actually really enjoy it and we also at that particular time we also review our PLPs as well. So we really try and make that PLP process authentic and you know, the teachers, the students can talk about where they're up to and where they can go next as well.

Murat Dizdar
Great work with the parents to draw them in, make them feel comfortable and make them part of their child's learning support structures.

Annette Thomson
And that's been a change too, because parents didn't always feel comfortable coming into our school. Some of them had poor experiences with their own education. So that's been a really big shift in our school and contributing.

Rebecca McIntyre
But I also think that the teachers really, really take it on board and really know the importance of, you know, knowing your families, knowing the students and, and making those connections. And I think that that's why it has been such a success because the teachers really do value family input. And they actively, you know, pursue if parents aren't able to come, like pursue via the phone to arrange extra meetings outside of that time because they see the value in it as well.

Murat Dizdar
Excellent. Annette, let me take you to the final question. I don't imagine you being able to achieve high expectations across the students, the consistency across staff, we just spoke about parents, overnight. I'm a newly appointed principal in a Connected Communities context, similar context, and I want to drive high expectations from day one. What advice have you got to me, for me as a newly appointed principal?

Annette Thomson
Yes, absolutely. I, my first thing is to seek to understand. So that's a one of the habits, but to really try to understand what happens in the school already and why that might be happening in. Like you can't go in and suddenly change everything or, you know, not recognise or acknowledge what's already there. But also to go slow, that you can't do it overnight. A lot of the trauma, a lot of the issues have been built up over time, especially if you're the first principal coming into a school that's just become a Connected Community school maybe or you know. So you do need to take the time and then you need to, you bring yourself to that situation. So you bring who you are and where you come from and what skills you have and what knowledge you have. And then you really look for the expertise in the school. So I looked for the people that could contribute to that, that had different skills because you don't want everyone the same as me.

Murat Dizdar
Great advice. Annette and Rebecca, can I thank you for making time for us today. Really good practical insights around how you've driven high expectations and continue to drive that across Coonamble Public School. We're delighted that you're working so solidly in this space and we're thrilled and really proud of what you're achieving there at the school. For more information about Coonamble Public School's approach to high expectations and to find the full suite of What Works Best resources, you need to jump on our NSW Department of Education website. You need to do it immediately.

[End transcript]

Lorraine Husarek
The consistency comes from that... really clear clarity, having clarity for your staff about the purpose and taking the time to delve into our assessment processes and ensure that those processes are consistent.

Jo Glazebrook
So we model the the importance of this piece of data and we show them as an executive how we utilise the data.

Lorraine Husarek
And it's through that analysis of assessment where we have those those conversations where we dig deeper, where we ask questions, where we develop curiosity about what's been identified.

Murat Dizdar
Hello colleagues, welcome to the What Works Best vodcast series. Here we grab great leaders from across NSW public schools and we get them to share their practical insights about how they are implementing the What Works Best practices to support student learning, engagement and wellbeing. Today we're going to zoom in on assessment and I'm joined by our fantastic colleagues, Lorraine Husarek and Jo Glazebrook, our Principal and our Assistant Principal, Curriculum and Instruction (AP,C&I) of Warrimoo Public School. We're coming to you from the lands of the Dharug and Gundungurra people. We want to pay our respects to their custodianship and their Elders, past and present. We're on their beautiful homelands in the Lower Blue Mountains. Lorraine and Jo, thank you for joining us, both. Jo, should we go to you first? Can you give us a little bit of context about Warrimoo Public School? Not every one of our people will have visited or know the school. Tell us what the school's like.

Jo Glazebrook
It's a beautiful school. It is situated in the Lower Blue Mountains and we're on our lovely little peninsula, valleys on both sides. We have 135 students of, obviously of all different backgrounds and things, and a very diverse group of students and community, and we have 6 classes that... lots of combined classes as well.

Murat Dizdar
Beautiful. So I imagine lots of benefits in a small school structure with 6 classrooms there. I imagine you're a tight staff. Talk to that.

Jo Glazebrook
The staff are a very tight knit group. We also know all the students really, really well. And when we talk about assessment, it's the kind of thing that we share across the school. So not only with programming, things like that, and of course wellbeing, but we also have a deep knowledge of where our students sit within our assessment schedule and those kinds of things.

Murat Dizdar
Fantastic. And Lorraine, you're our Assistant Principal, Curriculum and Instruction. How long have you been doing that role? Tell us what you do in that role before I get to assessment.

Lorraine Husarek
So my role as Assistant Principal, Curriculum and Instruction is primarily to support our teachers and to improve practices, looking at that explicit teaching framework and ensuring that our teachers at all times have the highest quality that we deliver to our students. I work alongside teachers, shoulder to shoulder in classrooms, supporting them with their practices and constantly reviewing the practices that they undertake. We work with our network, very tight with our network, around improving practice across the network.

Murat Dizdar
Is this the network of AP,C&Is?

Lorraine Husarek
The AP,C&I network within the Blue Mountains, led by Helen Davis, the DEL (Director, Educational Leadership). We've done a lot of work with supporting 'what does the AP,C&I role look like in small schools and how do we support one another there as well?' I work as well with our community in building the knowledge and understanding around what explicit teaching is, and I think that filtering into the community is an important role as well to play so that we have our parents come along the journey with us.

Murat Dizdar
Excellent, it's really important to take the parents. Let's zoom in on assessment. We have featured your work collectively and that of your team in the What Works Best series. Tell us what you've been doing around assessment in teaching and learning at Warrimoo.

Lorraine Husarek
Assessment really is information. It's about any piece of assessment is about finding a piece of information about a student. So assessment, we've done a lot of work around developing an assessment schedule so that we're very clear for our staff on what assessment we're gathering, whether it's relevant, how then we use that assessment in order to make differences to individual students, to small groups, to our school plan, to our improvement practices, ensuring that we've worked with selecting assessment tasks and tools that really narrow down for our teachers, so that we can tell the story about our learners a lot clearer.

Murat Dizdar
Okay, one of the biggest challenges I find is getting consistency of assessment practice. So you and I are next door to each other, but I'm a slightly easier marker than you are. How do you, how have you built the consistency of judgement and approach to assessment at Warrimoo?

Lorraine Husarek
So any assessment task undertaken, to begin with, we put a lot of professional learning into that prior to delivering it to students. Having a teacher's deep professional knowledge around that assessment, around whatthe pedagogical background about the assessment is, what information it's going to share and then how we deliver it. So establishing those assessment norms has been a really crucial part of our practice. When new teachers come on board at the start of the year, we make sure that we spend some time in those staff development days to really explore what does it look like, how do we deliver it and what information we can share from that. We also make sure that the assessment is then consistent in its delivery by having our AP, AP,C&I working alongside teachers to ensure there's consistency with the delivery. Assessment is then analysed and it's through that analysis of assessment where we have those conversations where we dig deeper, where we ask questions, where we develop curiosity about what's been identified, what we're going to be able to use that assessment for. And I think that conversational opportunities for our teachers are really important, taking that time.

Murat Dizdar
You describe that really well, Lorraine, non-educators won't understand this if they're listening to the series. Some non-educators might listen to you and say, 'well, but that's easy to achieve in a school that's got 6 classrooms set up with only 6 teachers'. But you've also worked in larger school contexts. Can you achieve that consistency around assessment that I spoke about by way of approach in a larger context? And what advice have you got in how to go about that?

Lorraine Husarek
Having worked in large schools, so I've worked in 2 large schools prior and the consistency comes from that really... clear clarity, having clarity for your staff about the purpose and taking the time to delve into our assessment processes and ensure that those processes are consistent. Consistent as well for our students on delivery so that we're providing opportunities to get the best information as assessment is information, it's information for teachers that making sure that we are have clarity, ensuring there's consistency and conversations. So through that we, we are then able to make sure our practises are equitable across whether it's a small cohort of students that we're delivering that assessment to or whether that's across a much larger when you're talking 500.

Murat Dizdar
Excellent. Jo, let me bring you in. As you know, one of our priorities is to try and minimise teacher workload by way of unnecessary tasks in administrivia. But how can you achieve this as a school leader in setting the standards, because you want to also minimise teacher workload around assessment as well. You know, some would claim that we overdo it and we're measuring and gaining information and asking for that with a great degree of rapidity. How are you balancing teacher workload with the importance of assessment information?

Jo Glazebrook
Well, I think that's really key, the importance. So if teachers can't see the importance of it, it could be one or two assessments and it's too much. So we model and Lorraine does an excellent job of modelling. So we model the importance of this piece of data and we show them as an executive how we utilise the data.

Lorraine Husarek
Can I just add on to what Jo has said there? Really critical is we've streamlined the types of assessment we've chosen. We're using department tools as well, such as the diagnostic assessment for spelling. We use Teams fluency and a lot of that is digitalised and does the calculation work for you in the background. So we haven't got teachers required to sit there and count the number of words per minute. Those tools have been highly successful. They also have the conditional formatting embedded into it, so we're able to, at a snapshot, make decisions about clusters of groups, or see evidence around a group of students or clusters. We've taught a lot of upskilling with our staff because technology is the way to go, with tracking our information and being able to source our information quickly. So we've been able to teach our staff on how to drill that information down using Excel. The other thing that's really critical is our pieces... our tools, our assessment tools are used by multiple people across the school. So as a classroom teacher, I'm looking at it with a lens, one lens, then the same piece of information will be looked at from our learning support team and then they will have the learning support lens over the same piece of information. Our executive team meet and look at that same data, but from an executive perspective about programs that we're implementing within the school, where we're moving to, what our priorities are. And so using one piece of evidence for multiple people across the school, I think is really important.

Murat Dizdar
Yeah, really well described. I thought you both spoke about the important of the purpose... that it's an information source and you've got to see some purpose about how to then use it. Final question, if I could get both of you to contribute to this... what's one piece of advice, I know you're going to struggle to give one, but only one, one piece of advice that you give our schools out there that want to strengthen their assessment practice in their context. Lorraine, we'll go to you first.

Lorraine Husarek
For me, I really believe it's if you collect it, use it. So there is no point collecting copious amounts of data if we're not using it to action. And so my one piece is if, if it's data relevant enough to collect, then it needs to be data relevant enough to action. So how does that... how do you bring about action, because ultimately we want our students...

Murat Dizdar
I'm writing that down, I'm going to use it in the building. If you collect it, use it. I like that piece of advice. And what about you, Jo?

Jo Glazebrook
Well, I think obviously what Lorraine said there was true too. But I think even for us as at an executive level, is to remind people about the good that will come from this. This is about improving student outcomes. And it's not just about the academics. The academics can inform the wellbeing, the wellbeing can inform the academics. So the... even the anecdotal things, the connections that we have with our students, the way that we interact with them, it's all data. And so even sharing that amongst your staff is still really, really important.

Murat Dizdar
Great advice. It's one of the key teaching standards, isn't it, that we know our students well and assessment is an important device to know where they are and how we can help them. Can I thank you Lorraine and Jo for making time. You know, I know what are busy schedules to join us and to share your expertise. We're proud that you're featured in the CESE What Works Best series around assessment. We're really proud of your work at Warrimoo Public School, and you should as well. Colleagues, for more information about Warrimoo Public School's approach to assessment and to find the full suite of CESE's What Works Best resources, you need to jump on the NSW Department of Education website right now.

[End transcript]

Lachlan Erskine
Feedback is, you know, it's, it's in the CESE What Works Best for a reason, because it does make a difference in the research or the educational research shows that it does make a difference to students and performance. Okay, I think feedback is, is really important to be able to pinpoint and identify for each student what they need to do to get to the next level or what it, what it is for them. And to, to make that really clear. And then to guide students and then to help them improve. And look, all of us in teaching and education want our students to be the best they can be and they're only going to do that with effective feedback.

Murat Dizdar
Hello everyone, welcome to the What Works Best 2025 vodcast series, where leaders from across NSW public schools are going to share their practical insights with us about how they are implementing the What Works Best practices to support student learning, engagement and wellbeing. Today we're going to zoom in on effective feedback and I'm with our great colleague, Lachlan Erskine, who's the Principal at Cabramatta High School. Cabramatta High School is located on the Cabrogal land in south-western Sydney. I want to acknowledge their custodianship, their Elders past and present, and welcome Lachlan in. Thanks for joining us, Lachlan.

Lachlan Erskine
Thank you, Murat.

Murat Dizdar
Let's go straight in, Lachlan. It's a really high performing school. I've had the great fortune of visiting it a number of times in my career and seeing you and the team in action. But for our folk out there, give some context about Cabramatta High School. Give a feel for the school.

Lachlan Erskine
Yeah. So we're a large school located in south-west Sydney. We have a student population of over 1,500 students. And it's a school where we like to think it's 3 in one... we've got a high school, we've got an Intensive English Centre (IEC) and a support unit and we're very integrated. It's a diverse school, so a student population of 96% non-English speaking background (NESB). And while it's not an affluent area, the community is very rich in terms of its value for education. So our families understand the importance of education and they want their children to do well. We want to educate them as the very best that we can and provide that really diverse learning environment.

Murat Dizdar
Excellent. So let's go into the topic on feedback though. We're really keen to hear how you and your team have created this sustained culture of feedback among staff. Talk to how you've been able to develop that and are you confident that the feedback practices are taking place in every classroom because that's a big challenge in a big school.

Lachlan Erskine
Yeah, yeah. So what I did early on when becoming principal was to, what we did with our executive team was we sat down and we looked at What Works Best and we looked through the 8 different elements and we spent time to think 'what are we doing well, what are those that we're doing well and what are those that we can develop?'. And effective feedback was one that we thought, let's have a focus area on effective feedback. This is an area that we can grow, we can do better at doing this. So it's a little bit surreal to then have the opportunity to share what we're doing as a resource, as a CESE resource. But we looked at effective feedback and identified together what are the parts of it that we can do better. We really had a focus too on what does it look like in different subject areas and what does it look like in each context. What does effective feedback look like in the support unit? What does it look like in an industrial arts or a visual arts workshop? What does it look like in English and maths? For example, in in mathematics, when we do effective feedback in mathematics, it'll be giving students the marking rubric which the teachers have used and then for them to look at their own paper and then mark their own paper against the rubric and then some discussion will happen there. In English, often what we will do is, is a whole group, so English advanced or English standard, once they've done their assessment, let's look at it together as a group. These were common elements among the feedback, as well as students getting individualised feedback as well. And then in practical subjects, a lot of the feedback happens in real time while they're working on a different project. The teachers are there going around the classroom giving tips and pointers and working on a project.

Murat Dizdar
You've got a really strong induction if I come in new to the school in the ways of what you're driving, but how are you driving teacher to teacher feedback? Not because we're not good enough, but because we can always keep growing and learning from each other.

Lachlan Erskine
Practice.

Murat Dizdar
How are you doing that part?

Lachlan Erskine
For our school executive team, we, what we do is we've, we've shared our practice. So, so at one of our school executive conferences, we spent almost 3 hours sharing what does feed effective feedback look like in each of our contexts. And then we find different new ideas that we can share and build on across faculties.

Murat Dizdar
Excellent. Lachlan, let's go to student feedback. We're all about driving also student agency and respecting student voice. Without it, we don't have schools. And you just spoke about an example there in maths. What strategies are you using with your teachers to encourage student agency and student feedback?

Lachlan Erskine
Yeah, and I think it's about being open to student feedback and open to assessment. And sometimes student feedback can be unfiltered when it comes back about what they expect in terms of it.

Murat Dizdar
It can come to you without even soliciting it.

Lachlan Erskine
Well, that's right. But what, what one element that, that a number of different subjects have found is that when they handed out the results, the students looked at the mark and that was it. And, and they sort of, they would shut off because it's a good mark, It's a bad mark. I've done well. And so what number of faculties have done is you, you hand out an unmarked sheet. So the student gets back their test. They and their peer will then together go through and mark the test. And then they would get their result. And then they've got a greater understanding already of this is where I need to improve. They can understand well this is why I got this result in this particular area of an exam. So once again, that helps to give students and, and that becomes then then an ability that they have to critically sort of analyse and mark their own work to, to build up their responses.

Murat Dizdar
What I like about what you covered there in the parts, I know of your context, there's also a competitive drive amongst your students that comes with that aspiration. So the marks really count and I can see how they might zoom in on the Maths extension 2 result. And so getting them to take steps backwards here and self-assess and peer-assess are really important. In your context, is it true about that competitive drive and does that help in that space?

Lachlan Erskine
Yeah, yeah. Students want to achieve very well and, and they're really focused on trying to achieve their best and aspire to get their best in education. But it's, it's a collaborative staff culture, but it's also a collaborative school culture - a student culture. So we want students to be able to be able to work together to support each other to, to have that peer-to-peer work and response so they can elevate each other's marks and ability.

Murat Dizdar
Lachlan, what about the hot topic? Teachers’ lots are fulsome and feedback has to be really timely for students so I can hit the mark, but it's also got to be time efficient for me as a teacher in the classroom. I've got a lot of happening. How can you achieve that? What's some of the ways you're doing that at Cabramatta High?

Lachlan Erskine
Yeah. So look, it's important that feedback is part of teaching and part of assessment, But I think also being very, very strategic about when about when we deliver feedback and when we put a lot of effort into preparing that feedback. For example, when students are receiving their trial HSE results, well, that's a really critical time that that putting in the effort to doing some effective and detailed feedback is going to make a big difference. So for us, what many of the faculties will do is, is we provide some extra time around the time when the trials on to then go through and do some analysis of the student results and then provide cohort feedback. Whereas a group that the students can then hear about each of the different sections of the paper. They can hear from the teachers who marked particular sections of the paper. So it's a collaborative effort, but it's one where we're being strategic in terms of where do we allocate some of the time. I think a strategic approach, one where feedback is part of what we do, but also understanding that together as staff, we can work to deliver that feedback.

Murat Dizdar
Yeah, I like what you say about the cohort. There's not just this individual student, but in common assessment tasks that we're seeing that opportunity to school the entire cohort around how we've gone about it and what we're looking for and where we can improve as a cohort as well. I think that's quite powerful and quite collegial because it makes teachers work closer together and rather than in isolation around the marking. Teachers’ lots not easy. Got to get up there and perform and be right across your craft. Providing feedback from my recollection of being inside the classroom can take hours of marking and comments on extended responses, for example. So why would you encourage the workforce to invest in skilling on feedback? Why? What return do you see?

Lachlan Erskine
Okay, I think feedback is really important to be able to pinpoint and identify for each student what, what, what they need to do to get to the next level or what it, what it is for them. And to make that really clear. And then to guide students and then to help them improve. It's worth the investment. Feedback is, you know, it's, it's in the CESE What Works Best for a reason, because it does make a difference in the research or the educational research shows that it does make a difference to students and performance. And look, all of us in teaching and education want our students to be the best they can be. And they're only going to do that with effective feedback.

Murat Dizdar
Beautifully put, beautifully put. My final question, I'm new to my school as principal and I'm getting to know my school community, my context. If I was to zoom in on this element, what advice have you got for me because you did not start this process in your school community just a year ago, you've been on a sustained path. What advice do you have for me? Should this be the element that I zoom in on?

Lachlan Erskine
Yeah. Well, I'd suggest a similar process. But what we did is, is you look at, so here's What Works Best and you explore all those different elements together. And you have time to have those conversations with all the stakeholders in the school to get a sense of what's happening and where to next to improve. And then there's time spent to really drill down. And like you mentioned, it's hard to know what's happening in classrooms. So to give everybody the opportunity to contribute and then to build on their expertise and their insights into the school and into their classrooms.

Murat Dizdar
Lachlan, can we thank you? We're really proud of your leadership. Colleagues, for more information about Cabramatta High School's approach to providing effective feedback and to find the full suite of What Works Best 2025 resources, jump on our NSW Department of Education website.

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